Fatima Al Matar discussed the experience of painting Honor and Tribe, shown below.
Interview Summary
This person selected an oil on canvas artwork, called “Honor and Tribe.” They believe they made this artwork because they are originally from Kuwait. In Kuwait, there are old traditions restricting women’s moment and this person’s artwork reflects that with two snakes representing honor and tribe. In the painting, there is a women who looks helpless and is restricted by these two ideologies.
This person chose this piece because they are a feminist and they put a lot of thought into this painting. This painting means the most to them.
Leaving Kuwait, they felt much safer in the United States. They felt they could finally express themselves. This person felt a satisfaction from their work when a lot of Arabic women reached out and told them that the painting does a great job at portraying what it means to be a woman in that region of the world. They completed this work by themselves late 2019.
While creating this painting, this person was contemplating many different details throughout the painting process. However, they knew they wanted the woman to be not very skinny, and to be suffocated by the two snakes. They had a lot of back and forth creating the lady’s body, they wanted her as natural as possible. This person wanted to represent all the pain and suffocation, fear and violence, women in Kuwait experience. This person got a lot of positive feedback from the woman in those areas.
This person found that if they are absorbed in something, it will be shown in their artwork. They also wonder if they are being true to themselves. They find that people come to art with their own ideas and experiences, beliefs and perceive it in different ways, the title can alter it as well. This person was 39 and would perceive the quality as good, they believe they can always improve.
At the time of creating this artwork, they moved to the United States and sought asylum.
Interview Transcript
Interviewer: Okay, okay, great. So, could you tell me what is the artwork that you selected? What are the important details?
Participant: So, it's an oil on canvas, and the title is “Honor and Tribe.”
And I think it is because I'm originally from a country called Kuwait, in the Middle East, where women's lives, continue to be threatened by the danger of the tribe, and this idea of honor. So, a small state, the Kuwait state is, consists of, like Bedouin tribes, who expect their women, mother's, daughter, sisters, nieces, granddaughters to protect their honor, in the sense that they are not allowed to enter relationships with men outside of wedlock, and so on, and so forth.
And, these old traditions restrict women's movement, their bodily autonomy, they're autonomy over their minds, their decisions, their daily decisions, some things as simple as what to wear, and who to marry. However, it goes even further than that, and a lot of women unfortunately lose their lives, so they are murdered by brothers, husbands, fathers, because they have done the unspeakable, or like broken these traditional rules in sense of like they've known men, they communicated with men outside wedlock. They have been suspected of being in a relationship with men out of wedlock. And it's shameful and also terrifying that this still happens today.
So, I wanted to sort of say that in my painting. The 2 snakes they're very menacing. They represent honor and tribe. And the woman, as you can see, has a sort of like helplessness about her, that she is totally restricted by these 2 ideologies. And I think what I, what most terrifies me about this tradition is that these women are afraid of their own fathers, sons, brothers, and husbands; the actual men who are supposed to sort of protect them and love them and take care of them.
So, I wanted to represent that in my painting.
Interviewer: Okay, great. And then, so you already talked to a lot about the description of it, the important details, and I wondered, why did you choose this piece? (Specialness)
Participant: I think, when I read your instruction, you said to choose one painting that means…I mean I value all of my paintings but this one specifically, because I'm a woman, because I'm a feminist, because I come from that country. Because it pains me that women fear for their lives from the men who live with them in their own homes.
I think I put a lot in this painting, so it means more to me than my other paintings. But of course, all of my paintings have value. But I remember your email saying a painting or a piece of work that means a lot to you. If I remember correctly.
Interviewer: Yeah, definitely. Perfect. And then, could you please tell me about the experience and process of creating this painting by answering some questions? So, what led up to the creation of this piece? What motivated you to create it?
Participant: I'm going to say a lot of the things I just said, leaving Kuwait, I have been very outspoken when I was still in Kuwait. I was a lawyer and a law professor. And, in Kuwait, there is no such thing as freedom of speech.
But I believed in these crazy ideas. I believed in freedom of speech, democracy, equal gender rights, and I spoke about them constantly, and I got in a lot of trouble, and I got persecuted and prosecuted until it got to a point where it wasn't safe for me and my daughter to live there anymore, and that's when I sought exile in the United States.
When I came here, I felt much safer, and I had a much bigger space to express myself. So, for example, I wouldn't, even if I had painted this in Kuwait, I would not have been able to exhibit, because freedom of expression is also non-existent.
So, when I came here and I thought, okay, now, I have all of this space to express myself. I can paint and not only paint, but also talk about my work, because if I had painted this in Kuwait, it would have to be hidden in my home. You know, very few people who come to my home can see it. That's it. I cannot exhibit it. I cannot put it on social media. So, when I came here and experienced all the freedom I have here. I painted it, and I talked about it on Twitter and the feedback from women, especially Bedouin women who struggle with this tremendous problem that we have in Kuwait.
They were so, you know, they admired the painting so much. They talked about how it rung through to them. And I felt like I accomplished something. You know when you create something that a lot of other people find relevant.
Participant: You feel a kind of satisfaction, because, as an artist I rarely feel satisfaction with my work. So, when a lot of women reached out a lot of Arabic women, especially women, from the Gulf area, reached out and said, how that painting really does portray what it means to be a woman in that region, I felt a lot of satisfaction The boa snake, you can see the black boa snake. I've used the marks on the boa snake to use Arabic calligraphy, and I don't, I don't think you read Arabic, but I've used the marks on the snake to write the words “tribe” and “honor” in Arabic.
It's very, it would be very difficult even for an Arabic eye to catch it, but I wanted to use to, to use that play of painting and calligraphy. I wanted to do that mix. But if someone was, if an Arabic person, if an Arabic reader was paying very close attention, they will be able to capture it.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And you've also mentioned a little bit about this, too. But would you like to say anything more about when and where the work on this happened? And if anybody else was involved besides you?
Participant: So, no, it's a solo piece of art. I remember I painted it late 2019. And again, it's oil on canvas.
Interviewer: And then could you talk a little bit about your thoughts and feelings at different times throughout the process of creating this painting?
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of creating this piece?
Participant: Yes, so I knew that I wanted the painting to be very focused. It wasn't going to have a busy background. It was just the subject. I wanted the eye to immediately be drawn, first of all to the startling image of the woman being suffocated by the 2 menacing snakes. I wanted the eye to glide on her body. I specifically chose a woman that is not very skinny. Unfortunately, most of the time women in arts are very, very thin. I wanted her to specifically not look very thin, because women in the Middle East are in general, not skinny. I wanted her to have that passive expression on her face that she's not reacting, that she has almost in a way gotten used to this restriction, to this suffocation, to this muffling.
I remember, I started sketching her body. I remember her hair was longer, and then I shortened it a little bit. I don't know why I remember that detail specifically. But, what else? A lot of people, when they first looked at, they asked me if she was pregnant, and I immediately said, it wouldn't be a problem if she was pregnant, but I just specifically wanted her to be a bigger size. I wanted her to have, I wanted it to look fleshy.
The dark maroon background it could have, I could have done it black. I was contemplating whether to go with black or maroon, and I felt like maroon would help just make it that more, maybe attractive. I don't know. What else can I say about the process?
Interviewer: Could you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points in the process of creating this painting?
Participant: I went back and forth a lot, because the way her body is turned, I didn't know whether to show some of the breasts, or to let the breast to be completely hidden. I feel like the way she, I contemplated whether to show like some curve of the breast, but then I felt like if I painted her this way, you, the viewer, can actually feel the weight of this next. These are not light snakes. These are very heavy snakes that are pushing her down to the extent where the breast is not showing at all.
I was a little bit nervous. I wanted to get the facial, the facial features, right? A lot of times, facial features can be difficult with the getting both eyes to look you know, to look right, and to have symmetry. The fingers, I was worried about because the other hand that is coming from under her head. I wanted to get that right, and to make it look as natural as possible.
Interviewer: Oh, great. So, let's talk a little bit about the impact of the artwork on yourself and others. Now, what did you learn from the process of creating this artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: I like to call myself a narrative artist in the sense that I like to tell a story in my art. And a lot of times, I wouldn't have the inspiration. I would want, for example, I'm struggling with micro aggression right now. Like, for example, a week ago, I experienced microaggression in my workspace, and I'm like, well, how can I paint this. How can I turn this into a painting? And I'm thinking about all of these metaphors. A keyhole, someone looking through the keyhole and seeing, seeing, or witnessing a scene that is disturbing. But why a keyhole? I kept asking myself why a keyhole. I concluded that the keyhole represents that the microaggression, a lot of time goes unnoticed, because it's a very small thing.
Because it was that passing comment, because it's inaccessible. So, in a way that you are seeing it, but they're seeing it from there's a barrier. So, they're seeing it from a distance. They're seeing it through a small hole. So, when I wanted to represent tribe and honor, and all the pain and suffocation, and fear and violence, women in Kuwait are experiencing from the men in their tribes and families. I started to think, well, how can I? I knew a woman needs to be in that scene, but then, how can I represent the men who represent the tribe and who represent that lie.
Which is in this ideology of honor that women have to protect their honor, otherwise they could be murdered by the closest people to them. And I kept thinking and wondering how to express that in a painting, until I finally got to the snakes. I mean I thought of like a woman crying with crows like attacking her, but I felt like crows did not convey my meaning as much as the fear and the suffering that I wanted to convey. So, I finally got to this idea of snakes. I feel like my brain has to go through a lot of bad ideas in order to get to that idea that “Yes, I think this idea could work. I think this would really tell the viewer what I'm trying to say.” I have to go through a lot of bad ideas. I have to do sketches. I have to write them down.
And sometimes even paint the painting and think, “No, it's not. It's not working, it's not conveying what I wanted it to convey.” Until I reach that thing where I'm like, yes, I think now the painting is saying what I wanted it to say.
Interviewer: And you talked about showing this to other people. So, what were some of their reactions? And then did you intend this to affect others? Other people or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: In the beginning, when I'm planning to paint something, when I want to express my feeling in emotion, in experience, because as a narrative artist, everything I experience gets followed in my painting. In the beginning I don't think about how the world is going to perceive. Only my own satisfaction as an artist. When I see this up. Yes. I think I said what I wanted to say in that. So, in the beginning I don't think about how the world will perceive it, or how the specific women from that region who go through this every single day will like it or not, will agree with it or not, will understand it or not. I can't. If I think that, that will completely cripple me, I will not paint anything if I think that.
So, in the beginning it's just me and all the thoughts in my mind. And then, if I'm happy with the work, and sometimes, even if I'm not happy with the work, I would share it on social media. But I wouldn't worry too much, because I know I know that there will be negative comments. There will be “No, it's not that bad,” especially from the men, that “No, it's not that bad. You're exaggerating You're lying. You're a drama queen.” You're so, I know that my art is not going to satisfy a lot of people, and I recently read someone and artists saying that as artists we want the approval of other artists more than the general public, and it's true like I find myself feeling a lot more satisfaction if a fellow artist told me, I like this piece of work. I think this piece of work really works, then the general public.
But it did get a lot of positive feedback from women in that region. I think maybe women in the West struggle with this idea of a father killing his daughter because of honor, or a brother killing his sister because of honor. But I think, to the women who have who do experience this horror on a daily basis, it rung true, and they saw it as right.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And then did your experience of painting this affect your own understanding of others or the world?
Did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or the world?
Participant: I don't know if affected my understanding of the world. I was watching a documentary about the baroque era, and the presenter said that Catholic art especially, there was a lot, well all of it was Biblical art. And the Catholic Church relied heavily on these paintings, because, he said, people like to see what they worship.
Because people like to see what they worship. And that struck me, and I think that, even though it did not affect my understanding of others, I think, when I saw the reaction from women saying, this really does portray honor and trial in the Gulf region. I felt like we came a little bit closer. We like we bridged an ocean or a gap between us.
Interviewer: Oh, yeah, that's perfect. Thank you. So, this prompt is a little bit longer. I will just go back and read it. So, when some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of creating this painting? Did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
When people think about themselves, they see part of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of creating the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Participant: I find that when I am absorbed in something, let's say a culture, I find that I have to put that in my artwork. Which sometimes can take me away from myself, and I'll give you an example. I briefly taught in a predominantly black school, here in the United States.
And because I was this material about slavery and racism and racial injustice, and teaching my black students, and being surrounded by my black students, I felt that I had to create several paintings with black subjects. And I wondered whether I was being true to myself or not. But I also know that as an artist I am constantly being moved by what's happening to me. I am being moved by the people who surround me. I'm being moved by the ideas that I talk about, and that I absorb.
So, of course, being absorbed in that culture made me paint these. But was I trying to please someone or a group of people? I don't know. I don't think I think that deeply. I think that I am moved to create a certain painting without thinking too much of will I get the approval of that group of people if I do that. I don't because, for example, this painting in front of you, this painting is still not sold. So, it's not like, “Oh, if I paint a subject that resonates with a group of people, then I'll be able to sell it and make money.” I don't think that I can think that far because nothing can really guarantee that if I satisfy a group of people, they will buy my art.
So, sometimes I wonder whether I'm being true to myself, that this inspiration is really organic? Or am I painting this piece of work or creating that piece of work to please a group of people. But I do know as an artist that there are no guarantees. So, when I am being moved, I just go with the flow. I don't try to fight. I don't know whether I answered your question. But that’s the answer that came to me.
Interviewer: Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of creating the artwork?
Participant: Okay. I am stuck by how we have different perspectives, and we perceive the meaning of art in --- because we all come to that image, or that painting with a totally different background. ideology, beliefs, and we perceive it differently. So, again I don't know if this will answer your question, but I have a painting, another painting, not this one, which I had called something. I titled it something, and then, when I exhibited, exhibited it in the current exhibit where it's being exhibited now, I renamed it. I called it something else. It became so much more appealing to the people who were at my opening last Saturday. The painting was called, “Girl on fire. “And then, I called it, “Despair is a kind of burning.” Because it has a girl who was kind of burning in a fire. And when I called it “Despair as a kind of burning,” a lot of people at the exhibition responded to it so much more than previous exhibitions.
So, I find that yes, we come to art with our own ideas and pasts, and experiences, and beliefs, and we perceive it in different ways. But sometimes the title can alter that.
And people look at that image and say “I felt despair. And my despair does feel like a kind of fire, like a kind of burning.” So, I don't know. I feel like I've mixed meaning with a lot of other things.
Interviewer: Thank you! So, the next question is, some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any kind of these experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Participant: No, I didn't. I often say that when I'm painting, even when I think that this painting, when I painted any of my things. I am my best self in the sense that all of my senses are engaged in an endeavor that I adore, but nothing spiritual, nothing out of this world. No.
Interviewer: Okay, great. Thank you. I just have a few follow up questions. I think you may have answered this already. But how old were you when you painted this?
Participant: I was 39.
Interviewer: And how do you perceive the quality of the work?
Participant: I think it's good. However, as an artist I am always developing, so I don't ever call any of my work my best work, because I'm always improving, always developing, always changing, always learning. But I would call it good.
Interviewer: And then would you like to talk at all about anything that was going on in your life around the time you created this piece?
Participant: There was a lot going in my life. I had just sought asylum in the United States. I had left my country and traveled to another continent, I had visited the United States before as a tourist, but I've never lived in the United States. I did my master’s and PhD in the UK. So, there are some similarities between the UK and the United States. But there are a lot of differences as well.
Participant: So just seeking asylum another country and being able to see where I come from with a much, much more critical eye.
Because when you leave your culture, you can see it more clearly. When you're inside it you can see, but you can’t see it that clearly, because you are inside. You are in the push and shove of it every single day. But when I had left it, and I started, I was also working on a collection of essays on feminism that is specifically targeted to that region to that country, because that is the country that I have the most experience in. I've lived there. I was born there. So, was consumed by all of my feminist theories, all of my anger towards my home country, where so much horror is being imposed on women.
And all of these feelings living in, you know, this new homeland, and trying to understand this homeland, and reading feminist from here and comparing it. There was a lot going on. It was, it's all, I would call it almost a rebirth. So, there was a lot going on, and I and this painting will always remind me of how I have, I was changing, and I was learning, and I was seeing things.
I was seeing things clearly about like what the creative culture means, and what the Muslim culture means, and I was learning a lot about my new culture. So, there was a lot going on.
Interviewer: Great yeah, that was great. Thank you so much.
This person selected an oil on canvas artwork, called “Honor and Tribe.” They believe they made this artwork because they are originally from Kuwait. In Kuwait, there are old traditions restricting women’s moment and this person’s artwork reflects that with two snakes representing honor and tribe. In the painting, there is a women who looks helpless and is restricted by these two ideologies.
This person chose this piece because they are a feminist and they put a lot of thought into this painting. This painting means the most to them.
Leaving Kuwait, they felt much safer in the United States. They felt they could finally express themselves. This person felt a satisfaction from their work when a lot of Arabic women reached out and told them that the painting does a great job at portraying what it means to be a woman in that region of the world. They completed this work by themselves late 2019.
While creating this painting, this person was contemplating many different details throughout the painting process. However, they knew they wanted the woman to be not very skinny, and to be suffocated by the two snakes. They had a lot of back and forth creating the lady’s body, they wanted her as natural as possible. This person wanted to represent all the pain and suffocation, fear and violence, women in Kuwait experience. This person got a lot of positive feedback from the woman in those areas.
This person found that if they are absorbed in something, it will be shown in their artwork. They also wonder if they are being true to themselves. They find that people come to art with their own ideas and experiences, beliefs and perceive it in different ways, the title can alter it as well. This person was 39 and would perceive the quality as good, they believe they can always improve.
At the time of creating this artwork, they moved to the United States and sought asylum.
Interview Transcript
Interviewer: Okay, okay, great. So, could you tell me what is the artwork that you selected? What are the important details?
Participant: So, it's an oil on canvas, and the title is “Honor and Tribe.”
And I think it is because I'm originally from a country called Kuwait, in the Middle East, where women's lives, continue to be threatened by the danger of the tribe, and this idea of honor. So, a small state, the Kuwait state is, consists of, like Bedouin tribes, who expect their women, mother's, daughter, sisters, nieces, granddaughters to protect their honor, in the sense that they are not allowed to enter relationships with men outside of wedlock, and so on, and so forth.
And, these old traditions restrict women's movement, their bodily autonomy, they're autonomy over their minds, their decisions, their daily decisions, some things as simple as what to wear, and who to marry. However, it goes even further than that, and a lot of women unfortunately lose their lives, so they are murdered by brothers, husbands, fathers, because they have done the unspeakable, or like broken these traditional rules in sense of like they've known men, they communicated with men outside wedlock. They have been suspected of being in a relationship with men out of wedlock. And it's shameful and also terrifying that this still happens today.
So, I wanted to sort of say that in my painting. The 2 snakes they're very menacing. They represent honor and tribe. And the woman, as you can see, has a sort of like helplessness about her, that she is totally restricted by these 2 ideologies. And I think what I, what most terrifies me about this tradition is that these women are afraid of their own fathers, sons, brothers, and husbands; the actual men who are supposed to sort of protect them and love them and take care of them.
So, I wanted to represent that in my painting.
Interviewer: Okay, great. And then, so you already talked to a lot about the description of it, the important details, and I wondered, why did you choose this piece? (Specialness)
Participant: I think, when I read your instruction, you said to choose one painting that means…I mean I value all of my paintings but this one specifically, because I'm a woman, because I'm a feminist, because I come from that country. Because it pains me that women fear for their lives from the men who live with them in their own homes.
I think I put a lot in this painting, so it means more to me than my other paintings. But of course, all of my paintings have value. But I remember your email saying a painting or a piece of work that means a lot to you. If I remember correctly.
Interviewer: Yeah, definitely. Perfect. And then, could you please tell me about the experience and process of creating this painting by answering some questions? So, what led up to the creation of this piece? What motivated you to create it?
Participant: I'm going to say a lot of the things I just said, leaving Kuwait, I have been very outspoken when I was still in Kuwait. I was a lawyer and a law professor. And, in Kuwait, there is no such thing as freedom of speech.
But I believed in these crazy ideas. I believed in freedom of speech, democracy, equal gender rights, and I spoke about them constantly, and I got in a lot of trouble, and I got persecuted and prosecuted until it got to a point where it wasn't safe for me and my daughter to live there anymore, and that's when I sought exile in the United States.
When I came here, I felt much safer, and I had a much bigger space to express myself. So, for example, I wouldn't, even if I had painted this in Kuwait, I would not have been able to exhibit, because freedom of expression is also non-existent.
So, when I came here and I thought, okay, now, I have all of this space to express myself. I can paint and not only paint, but also talk about my work, because if I had painted this in Kuwait, it would have to be hidden in my home. You know, very few people who come to my home can see it. That's it. I cannot exhibit it. I cannot put it on social media. So, when I came here and experienced all the freedom I have here. I painted it, and I talked about it on Twitter and the feedback from women, especially Bedouin women who struggle with this tremendous problem that we have in Kuwait.
They were so, you know, they admired the painting so much. They talked about how it rung through to them. And I felt like I accomplished something. You know when you create something that a lot of other people find relevant.
Participant: You feel a kind of satisfaction, because, as an artist I rarely feel satisfaction with my work. So, when a lot of women reached out a lot of Arabic women, especially women, from the Gulf area, reached out and said, how that painting really does portray what it means to be a woman in that region, I felt a lot of satisfaction The boa snake, you can see the black boa snake. I've used the marks on the boa snake to use Arabic calligraphy, and I don't, I don't think you read Arabic, but I've used the marks on the snake to write the words “tribe” and “honor” in Arabic.
It's very, it would be very difficult even for an Arabic eye to catch it, but I wanted to use to, to use that play of painting and calligraphy. I wanted to do that mix. But if someone was, if an Arabic person, if an Arabic reader was paying very close attention, they will be able to capture it.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And you've also mentioned a little bit about this, too. But would you like to say anything more about when and where the work on this happened? And if anybody else was involved besides you?
Participant: So, no, it's a solo piece of art. I remember I painted it late 2019. And again, it's oil on canvas.
Interviewer: And then could you talk a little bit about your thoughts and feelings at different times throughout the process of creating this painting?
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of creating this piece?
Participant: Yes, so I knew that I wanted the painting to be very focused. It wasn't going to have a busy background. It was just the subject. I wanted the eye to immediately be drawn, first of all to the startling image of the woman being suffocated by the 2 menacing snakes. I wanted the eye to glide on her body. I specifically chose a woman that is not very skinny. Unfortunately, most of the time women in arts are very, very thin. I wanted her to specifically not look very thin, because women in the Middle East are in general, not skinny. I wanted her to have that passive expression on her face that she's not reacting, that she has almost in a way gotten used to this restriction, to this suffocation, to this muffling.
I remember, I started sketching her body. I remember her hair was longer, and then I shortened it a little bit. I don't know why I remember that detail specifically. But, what else? A lot of people, when they first looked at, they asked me if she was pregnant, and I immediately said, it wouldn't be a problem if she was pregnant, but I just specifically wanted her to be a bigger size. I wanted her to have, I wanted it to look fleshy.
The dark maroon background it could have, I could have done it black. I was contemplating whether to go with black or maroon, and I felt like maroon would help just make it that more, maybe attractive. I don't know. What else can I say about the process?
Interviewer: Could you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points in the process of creating this painting?
Participant: I went back and forth a lot, because the way her body is turned, I didn't know whether to show some of the breasts, or to let the breast to be completely hidden. I feel like the way she, I contemplated whether to show like some curve of the breast, but then I felt like if I painted her this way, you, the viewer, can actually feel the weight of this next. These are not light snakes. These are very heavy snakes that are pushing her down to the extent where the breast is not showing at all.
I was a little bit nervous. I wanted to get the facial, the facial features, right? A lot of times, facial features can be difficult with the getting both eyes to look you know, to look right, and to have symmetry. The fingers, I was worried about because the other hand that is coming from under her head. I wanted to get that right, and to make it look as natural as possible.
Interviewer: Oh, great. So, let's talk a little bit about the impact of the artwork on yourself and others. Now, what did you learn from the process of creating this artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: I like to call myself a narrative artist in the sense that I like to tell a story in my art. And a lot of times, I wouldn't have the inspiration. I would want, for example, I'm struggling with micro aggression right now. Like, for example, a week ago, I experienced microaggression in my workspace, and I'm like, well, how can I paint this. How can I turn this into a painting? And I'm thinking about all of these metaphors. A keyhole, someone looking through the keyhole and seeing, seeing, or witnessing a scene that is disturbing. But why a keyhole? I kept asking myself why a keyhole. I concluded that the keyhole represents that the microaggression, a lot of time goes unnoticed, because it's a very small thing.
Because it was that passing comment, because it's inaccessible. So, in a way that you are seeing it, but they're seeing it from there's a barrier. So, they're seeing it from a distance. They're seeing it through a small hole. So, when I wanted to represent tribe and honor, and all the pain and suffocation, and fear and violence, women in Kuwait are experiencing from the men in their tribes and families. I started to think, well, how can I? I knew a woman needs to be in that scene, but then, how can I represent the men who represent the tribe and who represent that lie.
Which is in this ideology of honor that women have to protect their honor, otherwise they could be murdered by the closest people to them. And I kept thinking and wondering how to express that in a painting, until I finally got to the snakes. I mean I thought of like a woman crying with crows like attacking her, but I felt like crows did not convey my meaning as much as the fear and the suffering that I wanted to convey. So, I finally got to this idea of snakes. I feel like my brain has to go through a lot of bad ideas in order to get to that idea that “Yes, I think this idea could work. I think this would really tell the viewer what I'm trying to say.” I have to go through a lot of bad ideas. I have to do sketches. I have to write them down.
And sometimes even paint the painting and think, “No, it's not. It's not working, it's not conveying what I wanted it to convey.” Until I reach that thing where I'm like, yes, I think now the painting is saying what I wanted it to say.
Interviewer: And you talked about showing this to other people. So, what were some of their reactions? And then did you intend this to affect others? Other people or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: In the beginning, when I'm planning to paint something, when I want to express my feeling in emotion, in experience, because as a narrative artist, everything I experience gets followed in my painting. In the beginning I don't think about how the world is going to perceive. Only my own satisfaction as an artist. When I see this up. Yes. I think I said what I wanted to say in that. So, in the beginning I don't think about how the world will perceive it, or how the specific women from that region who go through this every single day will like it or not, will agree with it or not, will understand it or not. I can't. If I think that, that will completely cripple me, I will not paint anything if I think that.
So, in the beginning it's just me and all the thoughts in my mind. And then, if I'm happy with the work, and sometimes, even if I'm not happy with the work, I would share it on social media. But I wouldn't worry too much, because I know I know that there will be negative comments. There will be “No, it's not that bad,” especially from the men, that “No, it's not that bad. You're exaggerating You're lying. You're a drama queen.” You're so, I know that my art is not going to satisfy a lot of people, and I recently read someone and artists saying that as artists we want the approval of other artists more than the general public, and it's true like I find myself feeling a lot more satisfaction if a fellow artist told me, I like this piece of work. I think this piece of work really works, then the general public.
But it did get a lot of positive feedback from women in that region. I think maybe women in the West struggle with this idea of a father killing his daughter because of honor, or a brother killing his sister because of honor. But I think, to the women who have who do experience this horror on a daily basis, it rung true, and they saw it as right.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And then did your experience of painting this affect your own understanding of others or the world?
Did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or the world?
Participant: I don't know if affected my understanding of the world. I was watching a documentary about the baroque era, and the presenter said that Catholic art especially, there was a lot, well all of it was Biblical art. And the Catholic Church relied heavily on these paintings, because, he said, people like to see what they worship.
Because people like to see what they worship. And that struck me, and I think that, even though it did not affect my understanding of others, I think, when I saw the reaction from women saying, this really does portray honor and trial in the Gulf region. I felt like we came a little bit closer. We like we bridged an ocean or a gap between us.
Interviewer: Oh, yeah, that's perfect. Thank you. So, this prompt is a little bit longer. I will just go back and read it. So, when some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of creating this painting? Did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
When people think about themselves, they see part of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of creating the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Participant: I find that when I am absorbed in something, let's say a culture, I find that I have to put that in my artwork. Which sometimes can take me away from myself, and I'll give you an example. I briefly taught in a predominantly black school, here in the United States.
And because I was this material about slavery and racism and racial injustice, and teaching my black students, and being surrounded by my black students, I felt that I had to create several paintings with black subjects. And I wondered whether I was being true to myself or not. But I also know that as an artist I am constantly being moved by what's happening to me. I am being moved by the people who surround me. I'm being moved by the ideas that I talk about, and that I absorb.
So, of course, being absorbed in that culture made me paint these. But was I trying to please someone or a group of people? I don't know. I don't think I think that deeply. I think that I am moved to create a certain painting without thinking too much of will I get the approval of that group of people if I do that. I don't because, for example, this painting in front of you, this painting is still not sold. So, it's not like, “Oh, if I paint a subject that resonates with a group of people, then I'll be able to sell it and make money.” I don't think that I can think that far because nothing can really guarantee that if I satisfy a group of people, they will buy my art.
So, sometimes I wonder whether I'm being true to myself, that this inspiration is really organic? Or am I painting this piece of work or creating that piece of work to please a group of people. But I do know as an artist that there are no guarantees. So, when I am being moved, I just go with the flow. I don't try to fight. I don't know whether I answered your question. But that’s the answer that came to me.
Interviewer: Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of creating the artwork?
Participant: Okay. I am stuck by how we have different perspectives, and we perceive the meaning of art in --- because we all come to that image, or that painting with a totally different background. ideology, beliefs, and we perceive it differently. So, again I don't know if this will answer your question, but I have a painting, another painting, not this one, which I had called something. I titled it something, and then, when I exhibited, exhibited it in the current exhibit where it's being exhibited now, I renamed it. I called it something else. It became so much more appealing to the people who were at my opening last Saturday. The painting was called, “Girl on fire. “And then, I called it, “Despair is a kind of burning.” Because it has a girl who was kind of burning in a fire. And when I called it “Despair as a kind of burning,” a lot of people at the exhibition responded to it so much more than previous exhibitions.
So, I find that yes, we come to art with our own ideas and pasts, and experiences, and beliefs, and we perceive it in different ways. But sometimes the title can alter that.
And people look at that image and say “I felt despair. And my despair does feel like a kind of fire, like a kind of burning.” So, I don't know. I feel like I've mixed meaning with a lot of other things.
Interviewer: Thank you! So, the next question is, some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any kind of these experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Participant: No, I didn't. I often say that when I'm painting, even when I think that this painting, when I painted any of my things. I am my best self in the sense that all of my senses are engaged in an endeavor that I adore, but nothing spiritual, nothing out of this world. No.
Interviewer: Okay, great. Thank you. I just have a few follow up questions. I think you may have answered this already. But how old were you when you painted this?
Participant: I was 39.
Interviewer: And how do you perceive the quality of the work?
Participant: I think it's good. However, as an artist I am always developing, so I don't ever call any of my work my best work, because I'm always improving, always developing, always changing, always learning. But I would call it good.
Interviewer: And then would you like to talk at all about anything that was going on in your life around the time you created this piece?
Participant: There was a lot going in my life. I had just sought asylum in the United States. I had left my country and traveled to another continent, I had visited the United States before as a tourist, but I've never lived in the United States. I did my master’s and PhD in the UK. So, there are some similarities between the UK and the United States. But there are a lot of differences as well.
Participant: So just seeking asylum another country and being able to see where I come from with a much, much more critical eye.
Because when you leave your culture, you can see it more clearly. When you're inside it you can see, but you can’t see it that clearly, because you are inside. You are in the push and shove of it every single day. But when I had left it, and I started, I was also working on a collection of essays on feminism that is specifically targeted to that region to that country, because that is the country that I have the most experience in. I've lived there. I was born there. So, was consumed by all of my feminist theories, all of my anger towards my home country, where so much horror is being imposed on women.
And all of these feelings living in, you know, this new homeland, and trying to understand this homeland, and reading feminist from here and comparing it. There was a lot going on. It was, it's all, I would call it almost a rebirth. So, there was a lot going on, and I and this painting will always remind me of how I have, I was changing, and I was learning, and I was seeing things.
I was seeing things clearly about like what the creative culture means, and what the Muslim culture means, and I was learning a lot about my new culture. So, there was a lot going on.
Interviewer: Great yeah, that was great. Thank you so much.