JB Bergin discussed the experience of interacting with a collection of photos by Elsa Dorfman
Interview Summary
The participant chose a collection of spontaneous photographs that late photographer Elsa Dorfman took of her husband and son with her polaroid camera during every birthday. The photographs reminded the participant that family isn’t always an oppositional force against growth and humor and that creating art with family can be a good productive experience. For the first interaction with the artwork at the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, the participant was 26 years old and tried to involve others to watch the B sides documentary about Elsa Dorfman on Netflix. In the documentary the photographer shows the portraits and talks about their stories. At the beginning, the participant felt as if there was some sort of humor to the pictures, however, after spending more time interacting with the artwork, they saw the connection between family, routine, and traditions. The participant mentioned that seeing the growth in the pictures was their high point, that they didn’t have any low points, and that observing the family dynamic changing over time was a turning point for them. From the interaction, they learnt about the importance of the subject and how even if it stays the same, it can be creative. The participant believed that even if the photographer captured her loved ones in her art, she didn’t have a specific intention of affecting the world in any particular way. However, it allowed them to appreciate and find people in their life that are steady and that they can return to like in the pictures.
The interaction helped them reflect on their sense of authenticity about how they approach making and being affected by art. From it, they didn’t learn anything about ultimate meaning or had any experience beyond the physical world.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
Interviewer: In this interview we are interested in asking you to tell us about interacting with an artwork created by another artist. We're going to ask you to describe this experience in detail. Do you have any questions?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: You all good to start.
Participant: Mhm.
Interviewer: We'd like you to focus on your interaction with the particular artwork that someone else created. This may be a famous work, or one that's not well known. It can be a work created by anybody other than you. The work could be from any of the following domains: painting, drawing, sculpture, stained glass, installation, music, songs, dance, performance, art, film, literature, theater, mixed media, furniture design, interior design, or any other art form not mentioned. The work does not necessarily have to be the most important to you, but it should be meaningful and emotionally salient. It helps if your memories are more vivid. But you don't have to remember everything. Please choose your work and tell me what it is.
Description
Participant: The work that I'm thinking of is a collection of photos by the photographer Elsa Dorfman, the late photographer Elsa Dorfman, who used a type of polaroid camera that was extremely large. It was like a 24 by 27-inch polaroid. And they only ever made like 6 of the machines or 8 of the machines in the world, and she had one of them for a lot of her career. And she did a series of portraits on her birthday every year with her husband and their son --eventually their son-- with black balloons, with like a whole bouquet of black balloons. And so, she would do it, she started doing it, it started as a joke really, but they kept doing it for every birthday until she passed away. And that is the art project, that is the art piece that I'm thinking about.
Interviewer: Well, you've already described it a good bit, but can you point out any particular important details’ worth mentioning?
Participant: Yeah, I mean, I think an important detail that she's talked about comes from the… Okay, my computer just restarted, sorry, the, what is it called? The spontaneity of each photo. Like some of some of them they're in their bathrobe, some of them they're all dressed up, it looks like they just came from a sport game like a baseball game. And that to me is pretty crucial, and I think, really, really emulates a lot of what she pursues in her photos in her other work in her other type of portraits. That these very personal and intimate kind of family portraits that she catalogs have this notion of this notion that, like time, like things are always changing, and time is always changing. So, there isn't really the emphasis on, like what the photos look like, but more so on the that the people in them are there in that moment.
Why did you choose this one (Specialness)?
Interviewer: Yeah, what made you choose this one to talk about?
Participant: Hmm, I think it's like a nice meditation on family and on growth and on humor, in a way, which I think are all different, and sometimes opposing, but very important things to me in the art that I make in the kind of approach that I take to my own art making. I think it's like a nice reminder that family doesn't always mean to be an oppositional force, though it can be, and that can be productive but I think like in those, even in singular moments, it can kind of be nice to remember, and it can be nice to make art with, with family that feels timeless as much as it's always changing with the time.
Process of Interacting
What led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this piece?
Interviewer: Yeah, now please tell me about the experience and process of interacting with the artwork by answering the following series of questions.
Interviewer: What led up to the interaction and what motivated you to explore the piece?
Participant: Well, I first saw the piece like saw one of the examples in a documentary that's on Netflix called the B sides about Elsa Dorfman, that was filmed in 2012, maybe. And I saw that in 2020 in May for the first time. And she talks about, she shows one of the photos because she has copies, like physicals, of all of these portraits of all these Polaroids. So, she picks one up and is like talking about that story and talking about how she did it for a long time once. Like, the first time was a joke with the black balloons that Harvey, her, her partner, just brought as a joke. And then looking at her website later that week later that month, I realized that there was like a whole collection of these photos that she had put into her website like as a as just like a subject, The Black Balloons. And, I might have lost the thread of where that question was going, but that's where I like came into that's where I discovered it from.
When and where did the experience happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)?
Interviewer: You kind of touched on this a little bit but when and where did the experience happen? And was anybody involved besides you?
Participant: I tried to involve as many people as I could. But it was, it was a lot, the first time that I was like looking at it, and kind of observing it and thinking about it.
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the artwork?
Interviewer: What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the work? For example, the beginning, middle and end?
Participant: I think at first, I was feeling, I mean, like relatively, there was a humor to it. There was like a very kind of simplistic goal achieved in each photo. And as I spent more time with it and like it's really an interesting thing, because it's a project that like has colored almost like 2 like 1 to 2 years of my thinking about photography and thinking about art. So, I think about it every now and then, but in like in the experience of observing it the first time I felt like I saw it with a lot of humor and a lot of companionship and friendship. And the more that I spent time with it over months and years, the more that it's kind of clarified into this sort of statement on family and on routine and on like tradition and that sort of thing.
Can you describe any high points, low points or challenges, or turning points along the way?
Interviewer: Can you describe any high points, low points, or turning points along the way?
Participant: I think high points are just seeing the growth of all of them. I think it's an interesting way to catalog youth. And like growing up in like a childhood surrounded by artists and thinkers especially in such a like, almost clinical way, because the portraits themselves are very similar like they're just, they change their outfits, they grow a little bit, their son gets taller and taller. I mean low points; I don't think I really have any. I think turning points is like kind of being able to examine that same growth like I think that is both a high point and a turning point for me, just being able to observe a family and their dynamic, and how that changes and shifts over time and through childhood, through like young adulthood and how that's a special shift, but also can be like a challenging shift. I think that's an important turning point for me to think about.
Interviewer: Definitely.
Let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life?
Interviewer: Now let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the work or did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Um, I think, I think I learned about the importance of the subject and how the subject can always stay the same and that can be inventive in itself and creative to itself. I think that there is like something to be said about art acting as a mirror, which I think is very tropy, but I think is also the way that a mirror can transform and how it doesn't always have to be a different thing that you're looking at, it can just be the same thing over and over again at different times, and that is pretty fascinating.
Do you think that the artists intended for the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Interviewer: Do you think that the artists intended for the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: I don't think so, I think what I know of Elsa Dorfman feels like her approach to our making is very, I mean to me very admirable. And I hope to kind of share some of her approach in a in a way, like, sentimentally. I think that she very much just was a photographer by accident, and because she was in a certain place at a certain time, and a camera was handed to her. So, I think that her approach very much comes from that sort of like, accidental sort of presence, just being around people who she likes and appreciates, whose work is... Like, I think that she was very much like a team player in a lot of ways as much as she was making such a unique library of work that exists now of artists and friends and family, and just people in her life who she cared about. And so, her photos are all of the people that she cared about. I think that's really impactful in itself. But I don't think she I mean, I think she is definitely self-aware of the power of her photos, but I don't think she was like pursuing that sort of power.
Did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or the world?
Interviewer: Did your experience with the work affect your understanding of others or the world?
Participant: I think so, yeah, it's given me an appreciation for, for finding like characters in my life, and people in my life who are steady and steadying, and people that where we can return to one another at different times, and do the same thing over and over again, like take the photo again like do a series of portraits that happen every year, but all kind of create this body of work that feels like it tells a story.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the work? For example, did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: I think it was impactful to me to consider my own authenticity in comparison with this body of work and with these portraits. Just in the sense that, a running, like a theme in her work overall, but especially in this series, is that is that photos are just like moments in time that are all pretty untrue in a lot of ways because they only show a single moment in time at that time. And so, I think that it kind of reflects from me a certain sense of my own authenticity about how I approach making art and being affected by art, and, you know, collaborating on art pieces and art, you know, art things in the sense that the authenticity is very much in the immediate sense. And I kind of I feel like I run on that currency, on that like kind of direct nature of making things.
Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the artwork?
Interviewer: Some people believe in ultimate meaning; this is defined as deep underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the work?
Participant: I can’t say that idea really resonates with me.
Interviewer: Okay.
Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits. Have you felt some sort of inspiration, guidance, or encouragement from the non-physical or supernatural? Did you have any kind of these experiences during the interaction with the artwork?
Interviewer: Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs or experiences such as perceived interactions with God but may also include mystical or transcendental experiences or interactions with spirits. Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the artwork?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: Even if you did not have an experience like this, you may have felt some sort of inspiration, guidance, or encouragement from the non-physical or supernatural or you may have felt some sense of presence or connection. Did you have any of these kinds of interaction experiences during your interaction with the piece?
Participant: Yeah, I think the connection was very… It felt like a historical spirituality to a certain degree, just in the sense that, like the family unit, being people that I don't know, feel like people that I do know feel like people that I grew up around like I could like I could guess what sort of conversation they were having, what their house smelled like, like it felt like that sort of like.. I grew up around people like that. And so, seeing them grow up I felt like I could place myself in the same room, and have like kind of a kinship to it just by looking at the photos.
How old were you during the first interaction?
Interviewer: Okay, great, just some follow up questions. How old were you during the first interaction?
Participant: 26.
How did you perceive the quality of the work?
Interviewer: How did you perceive the quality of the work?
Participant: I thought it was excellent.
Was there anything in particular going on in your life during the time that you first interacted with it?
Interviewer: Okay, and was there anything in particular going on in your life during the time that you first interacted with it?
Participant: It was beginning of the pandemic, and it was like the kind of more, as much as there wasn't a strict quarantine, it was the more emphasized quarantine period. So, I think there was like pretty serious considerations of distance and relationship to people in my life that was impacting a lot of the ways that I was consuming art and thinking about my own art.
The participant chose a collection of spontaneous photographs that late photographer Elsa Dorfman took of her husband and son with her polaroid camera during every birthday. The photographs reminded the participant that family isn’t always an oppositional force against growth and humor and that creating art with family can be a good productive experience. For the first interaction with the artwork at the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, the participant was 26 years old and tried to involve others to watch the B sides documentary about Elsa Dorfman on Netflix. In the documentary the photographer shows the portraits and talks about their stories. At the beginning, the participant felt as if there was some sort of humor to the pictures, however, after spending more time interacting with the artwork, they saw the connection between family, routine, and traditions. The participant mentioned that seeing the growth in the pictures was their high point, that they didn’t have any low points, and that observing the family dynamic changing over time was a turning point for them. From the interaction, they learnt about the importance of the subject and how even if it stays the same, it can be creative. The participant believed that even if the photographer captured her loved ones in her art, she didn’t have a specific intention of affecting the world in any particular way. However, it allowed them to appreciate and find people in their life that are steady and that they can return to like in the pictures.
The interaction helped them reflect on their sense of authenticity about how they approach making and being affected by art. From it, they didn’t learn anything about ultimate meaning or had any experience beyond the physical world.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
Interviewer: In this interview we are interested in asking you to tell us about interacting with an artwork created by another artist. We're going to ask you to describe this experience in detail. Do you have any questions?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: You all good to start.
Participant: Mhm.
Interviewer: We'd like you to focus on your interaction with the particular artwork that someone else created. This may be a famous work, or one that's not well known. It can be a work created by anybody other than you. The work could be from any of the following domains: painting, drawing, sculpture, stained glass, installation, music, songs, dance, performance, art, film, literature, theater, mixed media, furniture design, interior design, or any other art form not mentioned. The work does not necessarily have to be the most important to you, but it should be meaningful and emotionally salient. It helps if your memories are more vivid. But you don't have to remember everything. Please choose your work and tell me what it is.
Description
Participant: The work that I'm thinking of is a collection of photos by the photographer Elsa Dorfman, the late photographer Elsa Dorfman, who used a type of polaroid camera that was extremely large. It was like a 24 by 27-inch polaroid. And they only ever made like 6 of the machines or 8 of the machines in the world, and she had one of them for a lot of her career. And she did a series of portraits on her birthday every year with her husband and their son --eventually their son-- with black balloons, with like a whole bouquet of black balloons. And so, she would do it, she started doing it, it started as a joke really, but they kept doing it for every birthday until she passed away. And that is the art project, that is the art piece that I'm thinking about.
Interviewer: Well, you've already described it a good bit, but can you point out any particular important details’ worth mentioning?
Participant: Yeah, I mean, I think an important detail that she's talked about comes from the… Okay, my computer just restarted, sorry, the, what is it called? The spontaneity of each photo. Like some of some of them they're in their bathrobe, some of them they're all dressed up, it looks like they just came from a sport game like a baseball game. And that to me is pretty crucial, and I think, really, really emulates a lot of what she pursues in her photos in her other work in her other type of portraits. That these very personal and intimate kind of family portraits that she catalogs have this notion of this notion that, like time, like things are always changing, and time is always changing. So, there isn't really the emphasis on, like what the photos look like, but more so on the that the people in them are there in that moment.
Why did you choose this one (Specialness)?
Interviewer: Yeah, what made you choose this one to talk about?
Participant: Hmm, I think it's like a nice meditation on family and on growth and on humor, in a way, which I think are all different, and sometimes opposing, but very important things to me in the art that I make in the kind of approach that I take to my own art making. I think it's like a nice reminder that family doesn't always mean to be an oppositional force, though it can be, and that can be productive but I think like in those, even in singular moments, it can kind of be nice to remember, and it can be nice to make art with, with family that feels timeless as much as it's always changing with the time.
Process of Interacting
What led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this piece?
Interviewer: Yeah, now please tell me about the experience and process of interacting with the artwork by answering the following series of questions.
Interviewer: What led up to the interaction and what motivated you to explore the piece?
Participant: Well, I first saw the piece like saw one of the examples in a documentary that's on Netflix called the B sides about Elsa Dorfman, that was filmed in 2012, maybe. And I saw that in 2020 in May for the first time. And she talks about, she shows one of the photos because she has copies, like physicals, of all of these portraits of all these Polaroids. So, she picks one up and is like talking about that story and talking about how she did it for a long time once. Like, the first time was a joke with the black balloons that Harvey, her, her partner, just brought as a joke. And then looking at her website later that week later that month, I realized that there was like a whole collection of these photos that she had put into her website like as a as just like a subject, The Black Balloons. And, I might have lost the thread of where that question was going, but that's where I like came into that's where I discovered it from.
When and where did the experience happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)?
Interviewer: You kind of touched on this a little bit but when and where did the experience happen? And was anybody involved besides you?
Participant: I tried to involve as many people as I could. But it was, it was a lot, the first time that I was like looking at it, and kind of observing it and thinking about it.
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the artwork?
Interviewer: What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the work? For example, the beginning, middle and end?
Participant: I think at first, I was feeling, I mean, like relatively, there was a humor to it. There was like a very kind of simplistic goal achieved in each photo. And as I spent more time with it and like it's really an interesting thing, because it's a project that like has colored almost like 2 like 1 to 2 years of my thinking about photography and thinking about art. So, I think about it every now and then, but in like in the experience of observing it the first time I felt like I saw it with a lot of humor and a lot of companionship and friendship. And the more that I spent time with it over months and years, the more that it's kind of clarified into this sort of statement on family and on routine and on like tradition and that sort of thing.
Can you describe any high points, low points or challenges, or turning points along the way?
Interviewer: Can you describe any high points, low points, or turning points along the way?
Participant: I think high points are just seeing the growth of all of them. I think it's an interesting way to catalog youth. And like growing up in like a childhood surrounded by artists and thinkers especially in such a like, almost clinical way, because the portraits themselves are very similar like they're just, they change their outfits, they grow a little bit, their son gets taller and taller. I mean low points; I don't think I really have any. I think turning points is like kind of being able to examine that same growth like I think that is both a high point and a turning point for me, just being able to observe a family and their dynamic, and how that changes and shifts over time and through childhood, through like young adulthood and how that's a special shift, but also can be like a challenging shift. I think that's an important turning point for me to think about.
Interviewer: Definitely.
Let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life?
Interviewer: Now let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the work or did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Um, I think, I think I learned about the importance of the subject and how the subject can always stay the same and that can be inventive in itself and creative to itself. I think that there is like something to be said about art acting as a mirror, which I think is very tropy, but I think is also the way that a mirror can transform and how it doesn't always have to be a different thing that you're looking at, it can just be the same thing over and over again at different times, and that is pretty fascinating.
Do you think that the artists intended for the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Interviewer: Do you think that the artists intended for the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: I don't think so, I think what I know of Elsa Dorfman feels like her approach to our making is very, I mean to me very admirable. And I hope to kind of share some of her approach in a in a way, like, sentimentally. I think that she very much just was a photographer by accident, and because she was in a certain place at a certain time, and a camera was handed to her. So, I think that her approach very much comes from that sort of like, accidental sort of presence, just being around people who she likes and appreciates, whose work is... Like, I think that she was very much like a team player in a lot of ways as much as she was making such a unique library of work that exists now of artists and friends and family, and just people in her life who she cared about. And so, her photos are all of the people that she cared about. I think that's really impactful in itself. But I don't think she I mean, I think she is definitely self-aware of the power of her photos, but I don't think she was like pursuing that sort of power.
Did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or the world?
Interviewer: Did your experience with the work affect your understanding of others or the world?
Participant: I think so, yeah, it's given me an appreciation for, for finding like characters in my life, and people in my life who are steady and steadying, and people that where we can return to one another at different times, and do the same thing over and over again, like take the photo again like do a series of portraits that happen every year, but all kind of create this body of work that feels like it tells a story.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the work? For example, did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: I think it was impactful to me to consider my own authenticity in comparison with this body of work and with these portraits. Just in the sense that, a running, like a theme in her work overall, but especially in this series, is that is that photos are just like moments in time that are all pretty untrue in a lot of ways because they only show a single moment in time at that time. And so, I think that it kind of reflects from me a certain sense of my own authenticity about how I approach making art and being affected by art, and, you know, collaborating on art pieces and art, you know, art things in the sense that the authenticity is very much in the immediate sense. And I kind of I feel like I run on that currency, on that like kind of direct nature of making things.
Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the artwork?
Interviewer: Some people believe in ultimate meaning; this is defined as deep underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the work?
Participant: I can’t say that idea really resonates with me.
Interviewer: Okay.
Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits. Have you felt some sort of inspiration, guidance, or encouragement from the non-physical or supernatural? Did you have any kind of these experiences during the interaction with the artwork?
Interviewer: Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs or experiences such as perceived interactions with God but may also include mystical or transcendental experiences or interactions with spirits. Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the artwork?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: Even if you did not have an experience like this, you may have felt some sort of inspiration, guidance, or encouragement from the non-physical or supernatural or you may have felt some sense of presence or connection. Did you have any of these kinds of interaction experiences during your interaction with the piece?
Participant: Yeah, I think the connection was very… It felt like a historical spirituality to a certain degree, just in the sense that, like the family unit, being people that I don't know, feel like people that I do know feel like people that I grew up around like I could like I could guess what sort of conversation they were having, what their house smelled like, like it felt like that sort of like.. I grew up around people like that. And so, seeing them grow up I felt like I could place myself in the same room, and have like kind of a kinship to it just by looking at the photos.
How old were you during the first interaction?
Interviewer: Okay, great, just some follow up questions. How old were you during the first interaction?
Participant: 26.
How did you perceive the quality of the work?
Interviewer: How did you perceive the quality of the work?
Participant: I thought it was excellent.
Was there anything in particular going on in your life during the time that you first interacted with it?
Interviewer: Okay, and was there anything in particular going on in your life during the time that you first interacted with it?
Participant: It was beginning of the pandemic, and it was like the kind of more, as much as there wasn't a strict quarantine, it was the more emphasized quarantine period. So, I think there was like pretty serious considerations of distance and relationship to people in my life that was impacting a lot of the ways that I was consuming art and thinking about my own art.
Proudly powered by Weebly