Linda Harrsion discussed the experience of interacting with the sculpture, Three Men Walking, by Alberto Giacometti
Interview Summary
This person chose an artwork called “Three Men Walking”. This sculpture has massive pieces and represents unique shapes. This person feels you see different aspects when you walk around it. The shadows play an important role in making the figures seem longer, shorter, etc. This person feels that this artwork represents their overall feeling about the interpretation of the figure and the idea of movement.
This artwork is the first exposure this person has had to 3D art. It had a huge impact on this person because you feel as if you are in a different dimension, which they find refreshing. This sculpture is at the end of the exhibit and is very different to the artists other pieces. Through this artwork, they learned that art is about self-expression and interpretation. Their co-worker had invited this person to the art museum in July and felt an emotional aspect to the painting has their best friend had passed away during the same period. Because of that, they thought more deeply about the meaning of life and connected it to the sculpture. At first glance, you’re hit with a strangeness and as time goes by, you become more interested, and you work up to an emotional connection.
This person had neural expectations and an open curiosity when interacting with the artwork. This person did not expect. A sculpture to affect them as much as it did. This person did feel as their true self when interacting with the artwork because they felt the connection was authentic and genuine. This person did not learn anything about ultimate meaning, but they believed to have felt a spiritual experience. This person was 46 years old when they encountered this artwork and believe the quality to be high-quality and as “human-like” and “real”.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
PARTICIPANT: It's called “Three Men Walking.” It's not a particularly large piece.
A lot of his pieces were unusual in the sense that they would have large bodies and tiny heads. And then he had some sculptures that were just big heads. But all of them sort of featured these strange, stick like shapes elongated, almost alien-like or corpse-like.
Interviewer: Would you like to talk any more about the important details of this one?
PARTICIPANT: Yeah. So, again, the 3D art is so hard to describe in 2D, but that's why it had such an impact. So, when you walk around the sculpture, you see different aspects of it. And, the way shadows can play, depending upon where the light is, it will hit these figures in different ways to make them either seem longer or shorter and fatter. So, it would be almost like 6 different figures, depending upon where you're standing. So, that the whole lighting aspect was new to me as well that something, the perspective, something can look different, based off of how the light bounced off of it.
Also, again with the perspectives, they're very thin. And, from the side they have like that willowy aspect. But here you can kind of see the frontal. So, these are the sides, the front. But if you walk around all of these you can kind of, see them almost in motion in that.
For example, if there was a lazy Susan and you could turn it around each of these characters would almost seem like they are interacting with each other.
Interviewer: Interesting! So, would you like to talk a little bit more about why you chose to talk about this piece in this exhibit for this study?
PARTICIPANT: I think because it generally represents my overall feeling about a lot of his pieces that have the similar impact on me. It has to do with interpretation of the figure, the human figure, for one thing, but also the idea of movement. Making it more alive in a sense, making it more real, and it's the way the way he had the bronze sculpted, and I'm not sure it's this exact technique because bronze to me it's very different from the idea that I have a sculpture with a different type of medium, or say a mold like, if you had one of those wax lost wax castings of metal.
So, there's that physical aspect. So, when I'm looking at the piece. I sort of imagine what it might feel like for him to be in the moment, and to be creating it. And if it was a situation where he had the idea in mind. Well, he did sketch things out prior. But, when you're in it, how it evolves in your mind, because translating it from your mind to the outside world is very different, and it tends to evolve as you go along.
And so, it's just sort of trying to put myself through his eyes, sort of, in his sensation, what he's what he's going through.
Interviewer: Yeah, is there something about sculpture that's meaningful or distinguishing as compared to other art forms for you?
PARTICIPANT: Yes, now again, this is probably first exposure I've had to any type of 3D art that had a huge impact on me because it's everywhere, you see, public are, you see, exhibits where there's people, you know, doing smaller things, but I think many of his pieces were pretty large, and so the enormity normally of those pieces.
But the emotional aspect for me: uniqueness, and the strangeness. Like seeing all of his pieces, particularly in one area. And a lot of it had to do with how the museum had it laid out like I'm sure they had some idea in mind from when you walk through and go through the exhibit like how it would impact you. But it was like you're in a different world, almost like a different dimension, which is refreshing. And that that feeling of strangeness is important to me.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And now please tell me about the experience and process of interacting with this sculpture by answering a few questions. So, what led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: This sculpture actually came towards the end of the exhibit. And again, I think a lot of it had to do with the shadow playing off of the figures, and how when you're walking around, it seemed to change, and there seemed to be some sort of movement.
And the interaction that I see between the 3 figures. It's a little different from his other pieces, because a lot of his other pieces just we're either a single person or several people, just kind of moving like straightforward, all in a line.
So, this is making me think of 2 different things. So, in relation to a different sculpture. So, the way these two are positioned kind of headed towards the same, the center, in a way it's almost as if they can merge. So, in a sense it's three different aspects of one person's personality, and how people can kind of compartmentalize and be different people.
And going back to the shadow play of it, there is another sculpture there that he has that's almost like one of these, but it's huge. And so, there was a photograph of Giacometti standing next to the sculpture and the enormity of it compared to him, but it looked like it was his shadow. But solid shadow, much bigger than him. And to me again, that was sort of a parallel with another aspect of himself.
Interviewer: Okay. Great. Thank you. And do you think there was something that wanted or needed to be expressed through this artwork?
Interviewer: Something that wanted or needed to be expressed through the creation of this sculpture. Yeah, I think whenever somebody makes a piece there's something that you have a need to express, because otherwise you wouldn't invest the time and effort to create it, and there's a cost like bronze is pretty expensive. I wish I could remember what and the gallery might not even have a motivation behind the piece, which leaves it up to the interpretation of the viewer. But I think this was during the war, and I don't know if he's, I don't remember if he's from Italy or Switzerland, but this is 1948 so it's sort of post-war, and I'm sure there was some political motivation in his mind about reflecting that. And I mean you could read all sorts of things into it like with the Holocaust and the shape of the figures.
But I don't think that's where it's coming from. I do think that it is how he tried to see people.
And there's a quote that impacted me so deeply that I took a photo of it, because it was different than how I saw art and this is why it impacted me, and it relates to maybe, how he meant to express whatever he was trying to say. His quote was or the sense of it was that, when you're doing art, you should not do art with any interpretation. Like you when you do it, like. If you're going to paint a portrait of a man, you don't paint the portrait of a man as you see the man, you paint the man as he really is.
I think from what I've known about art, it's all about self-expression and interpretation. And what he was describing is how I think a lot of anatomical pictures are made, like the proportions of the real human figure. And he is definitely someone who is capable of drawing in that way, and I mean his drawing was amazing and realistic, very realistic. But his, the way his art came out. This is how he saw them realistically and no part of himself was inserted is sort of what was the implication from the quote.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then I know you've already talked a little bit about this, but when and where did the experience of interaction with this sculpture,
When and where did it happen? And then was there anyone else involved besides you?
PARTICIPANT: This happened in the summer. I would say it was in August or so. July. It was in July.
And I was with my friend, who used to be a co-worker. She just randomly invited me, so, we work for the university, and we get some perks, like we get some free tickets to certain things. And, she had an extra ticket to the Art Museum, and there was this exhibit, and she just, I don't know, she just wanted to go with somebody. So, I went up there with her, and I didn't know what to expect. I did not do research on who he was, and I think maybe the emotional aspect might have had, sorry. I might have been a little bit more emotional because of recent, like my best friend died tragically, so that, I was coming from the aftermath of that.
And so, I think part of me was almost in a different reality because of that, you know, thinking more deeply about the meaning of life. And you know, purpose and all that stuff. And so, walking into this was like walking into a different world, almost. Kind of, you know, kind of I don't know. I mean, get your imagination going, which I think is a lot easier when you're in a more like open, sensitive type space.
Interviewer: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. So, could you talk a little bit about what you were thinking and feeling at different times through the process of interacting with this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: By the time I reached the sculpture it was towards the end of the exhibit, and I think walking in, it was almost like walking in initially, not knowing what to expect. You're kind of hit with the strangeness of it. And you're wondering, okay, what's all this about? And as you walk through it became more and more interesting because of the strangeness. And, at first there's not really an emotional connection, you're just trying to figure out what this is about. But, by the time I reached these later exhibits, which this was later in the exhibit, and then I went back and was able to look at the other ones with a different interpretation.
I was thinking about the artist. They had lots of little snippets of his life, and where he was at, and the type of person he was, and like how his style changed over the years and the evolution. And so, I was thinking a lot about that. I was thinking a lot about how people should evolve, or they do naturally.
And yeah, because there's, it's inevitable, people are going to evolve, people are going to change. But the direction they change, and if they choose to change it in a conscious way, or do they just do it haphazardly, which is almost sort of like when you do art. Is it something that you intend to do? Or does it something you just do, and it evolves naturally, and you wind up with what you wind up with?
And so, I mean, I get, I do get kind of philosophical, so I think I was kind of going in with the questions of how much control do we have over life, and who we are?
Interviewer: And then could you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points in your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: it's interesting to ask about high lights or low lights, because I think I go in with pretty neutral expectations, more just kind of open curiosity, and I mean, when I think of, when you say low lights, I think in terms of disappointments, or being critical, like a critical eye on technique, and I never had any of that Again, with the highlights, I think it was sort of the element of surprise.
That feeling, not expecting a sculpture to affect me like that.
Interviewer: Let’s talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
PARTICIPANT: It's hard, because right now I'm trying to pull out this specific sculpture versus the whole, just all of the experience. That I could be so affected. I mean, that was kind of a surprise to be, you know, to have emotion evoked, and to be able to see different things. I learned that was important to me. I learned that something like this cold metal was strange looking. There are no faces, so there's no emotion, but the fact that it can make you feel something without that was weird to me.
And really made me think about again, that quote earlier I had read, so that I had that in my mind, but it also just made me realize how much the viewer puts on themselves into that, interpreting expression. When there's really nothing there. If you look at it just subjectively and neutrally, there's like, it's just, I mean, yeah, it's just interesting the way you move around the sculpture. How they're like really thin! But when you move in a certain way, they become more real, like almost like real as in they look a little bit more fleshed out. And the fact that I was interpreting, I was putting an interpretation into it that had a lot of meaning to me. But you look at it and it doesn't really mean anything.
Interviewer: And then you've already talked a little bit about this, and it kind of builds on your last answer. But did you think that the artist intended for this work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
PARTICIPANT: Yes. He had a lot of commission to work, so I'm sure there was a lot of direction that he got from people who were either his patrons or anybody. But again, it was a very political time.
It was, you know, a time of recovery like socially, a lot of repair, a lot of disarray, you know destruction, and trying to build that back up, but also trying to like form new facets, new different movements of art, and trying to find people who appreciate your work, because in my mind that sort of bonds you to those people. And whether or not an artist intends to make an emotional impact or an intellectual impact, I think, yeah, for him, I think so.
I just don't know what it is because I didn't pay attention to that part of it.
Interviewer: And then did your experience with this sculpture affect your understanding of others or the world?
PARTICIPANT: Yeah, and I think by others, that can kind of be interpreted. To me, it can be interpreted a couple of ways. By others, it could mean, like outside groups or organizations or societies like others, and outside of your little circle that you're used to running with.
My initial reaction when you asked that was other, as in other than me. Other like as an individual. So, a big part of it was what we already talked about was trying to understand the artist and what was being said. But again, at that time it's just from the lens of what I was, where I was at in the time in terms of the world. Yeah, I think the there was a huge impact in connecting with other artists.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then this prompt is a little bit longer, so we'll just go ahead and read it. When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
When people think about themselves, they see part of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
PARTICIPANT: That's a really interesting question. I think, in my mind it would be almost the opposite, like if it brought out any parts of myself that I thought were inauthentic. Because, I don't know, I feel like I am my true self. And I think maybe that's what connected was that I felt like this was authentic and genuine. Maybe that's what helped resonate with that, like with the strangeness and not feeling like.
Like most of the figures are solitary. But terms of like those aspects of yourself that are false or in authentic. I never considered myself an artist, or necessarily an art lover.
And so, being an artist, I had the hardest time calling myself that it's like that impostor syndrome, and I still don't really think of myself as an artist, so I think there is a part of it that kind of drew me out, and like feeling like a fraud in a sense of what I do as compared to what he does, cause he's an artist, and here I am doing all this stuff trying to be an artist when it's like playing.
And I don't feel like an artist at all. But this is guy who's trained, he's an artist like a real thing. He’s got commissions, and I mean. world renowned, you know. That to me is an artist. But here I am, I'm just kind of like doing stuff for more mental health stuff, you know. And I feel like because I tend to think a lot. So, I think it's hard when you're so kind of self-absorbed or insulated, and you know, I don't know, Introverted, in a sense like you focus so much on like yourself, and how you would interact with the world.
It's hard to separate from being disingenuous from that being inauthentic because you're living in yourself all the time. And that's more obvious than those inauthentic parts. And so, it was more, if anything, and again, this is not what I was going through at the time. If I, looking back, there was some sense of bringing out what was inauthentic in me, and it was number one, that whole imposter syndrome.
Interviewer: Alright, Thank you. So, the next prompt’s also a little bit longer. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: No. If anything, I think I kind of learned the opposite, that there is no inherent meaning.
Like as an individual in the experience. I mean, I guess that's ultimate meaning. It's all in you, your perspective.
Interviewer: And then, as some people believe or perceive, a reality beyond the physical or material world. This might include religious beliefs and experiences but may also include mystical or transcendent experiences or interaction with spirits.
Now, did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: No.
Interviewer: And then, even if you didn't have that kind of experience, you might have felt some sort of inspiration or guidance or encouragement, or a sense of presence or connection.
Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: Yes.
Interviewer: And then, could you talk a little bit about what that experience was like, and then how it may have affected you as a person and your either religious and spiritual beliefs or world views, if at all?
PARTICIPANT: Again, this happened a few months ago, and there's a lot of things going on at the time, and in hindsight, I could probably apply more meaning to it than I did at the time. There is something about his biography that struck me as giving me permission to consider myself.
And again, I think it goes back to that quote of like doing a portrait of somebody as he really is and not as how you interpret it, because you're going to wind up interpreting that person to be anyway, because everybody is different, and in ways that kind of gave me a sense of freedom.
And, you know that's kind of motive, you know. Like it’s just part of the human experience
Like, I don't have that same experience, but there's that core driving force, anyway. So, it might not make sense to people why, I feel that drive.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. I just have a couple of quicker follow up questions. So how old were you when you interacted with the sculpture?
How old were you when you first interacted with this piece?
PARTICIPANT: 46.
Interviewer: And then how do you perceive the quality of this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: High quality to me. It’s, the quality is more human-like, more real.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. Oh, yeah, that was all great. Thank you so much.
This person chose an artwork called “Three Men Walking”. This sculpture has massive pieces and represents unique shapes. This person feels you see different aspects when you walk around it. The shadows play an important role in making the figures seem longer, shorter, etc. This person feels that this artwork represents their overall feeling about the interpretation of the figure and the idea of movement.
This artwork is the first exposure this person has had to 3D art. It had a huge impact on this person because you feel as if you are in a different dimension, which they find refreshing. This sculpture is at the end of the exhibit and is very different to the artists other pieces. Through this artwork, they learned that art is about self-expression and interpretation. Their co-worker had invited this person to the art museum in July and felt an emotional aspect to the painting has their best friend had passed away during the same period. Because of that, they thought more deeply about the meaning of life and connected it to the sculpture. At first glance, you’re hit with a strangeness and as time goes by, you become more interested, and you work up to an emotional connection.
This person had neural expectations and an open curiosity when interacting with the artwork. This person did not expect. A sculpture to affect them as much as it did. This person did feel as their true self when interacting with the artwork because they felt the connection was authentic and genuine. This person did not learn anything about ultimate meaning, but they believed to have felt a spiritual experience. This person was 46 years old when they encountered this artwork and believe the quality to be high-quality and as “human-like” and “real”.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
PARTICIPANT: It's called “Three Men Walking.” It's not a particularly large piece.
A lot of his pieces were unusual in the sense that they would have large bodies and tiny heads. And then he had some sculptures that were just big heads. But all of them sort of featured these strange, stick like shapes elongated, almost alien-like or corpse-like.
Interviewer: Would you like to talk any more about the important details of this one?
PARTICIPANT: Yeah. So, again, the 3D art is so hard to describe in 2D, but that's why it had such an impact. So, when you walk around the sculpture, you see different aspects of it. And, the way shadows can play, depending upon where the light is, it will hit these figures in different ways to make them either seem longer or shorter and fatter. So, it would be almost like 6 different figures, depending upon where you're standing. So, that the whole lighting aspect was new to me as well that something, the perspective, something can look different, based off of how the light bounced off of it.
Also, again with the perspectives, they're very thin. And, from the side they have like that willowy aspect. But here you can kind of see the frontal. So, these are the sides, the front. But if you walk around all of these you can kind of, see them almost in motion in that.
For example, if there was a lazy Susan and you could turn it around each of these characters would almost seem like they are interacting with each other.
Interviewer: Interesting! So, would you like to talk a little bit more about why you chose to talk about this piece in this exhibit for this study?
PARTICIPANT: I think because it generally represents my overall feeling about a lot of his pieces that have the similar impact on me. It has to do with interpretation of the figure, the human figure, for one thing, but also the idea of movement. Making it more alive in a sense, making it more real, and it's the way the way he had the bronze sculpted, and I'm not sure it's this exact technique because bronze to me it's very different from the idea that I have a sculpture with a different type of medium, or say a mold like, if you had one of those wax lost wax castings of metal.
So, there's that physical aspect. So, when I'm looking at the piece. I sort of imagine what it might feel like for him to be in the moment, and to be creating it. And if it was a situation where he had the idea in mind. Well, he did sketch things out prior. But, when you're in it, how it evolves in your mind, because translating it from your mind to the outside world is very different, and it tends to evolve as you go along.
And so, it's just sort of trying to put myself through his eyes, sort of, in his sensation, what he's what he's going through.
Interviewer: Yeah, is there something about sculpture that's meaningful or distinguishing as compared to other art forms for you?
PARTICIPANT: Yes, now again, this is probably first exposure I've had to any type of 3D art that had a huge impact on me because it's everywhere, you see, public are, you see, exhibits where there's people, you know, doing smaller things, but I think many of his pieces were pretty large, and so the enormity normally of those pieces.
But the emotional aspect for me: uniqueness, and the strangeness. Like seeing all of his pieces, particularly in one area. And a lot of it had to do with how the museum had it laid out like I'm sure they had some idea in mind from when you walk through and go through the exhibit like how it would impact you. But it was like you're in a different world, almost like a different dimension, which is refreshing. And that that feeling of strangeness is important to me.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. And now please tell me about the experience and process of interacting with this sculpture by answering a few questions. So, what led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: This sculpture actually came towards the end of the exhibit. And again, I think a lot of it had to do with the shadow playing off of the figures, and how when you're walking around, it seemed to change, and there seemed to be some sort of movement.
And the interaction that I see between the 3 figures. It's a little different from his other pieces, because a lot of his other pieces just we're either a single person or several people, just kind of moving like straightforward, all in a line.
So, this is making me think of 2 different things. So, in relation to a different sculpture. So, the way these two are positioned kind of headed towards the same, the center, in a way it's almost as if they can merge. So, in a sense it's three different aspects of one person's personality, and how people can kind of compartmentalize and be different people.
And going back to the shadow play of it, there is another sculpture there that he has that's almost like one of these, but it's huge. And so, there was a photograph of Giacometti standing next to the sculpture and the enormity of it compared to him, but it looked like it was his shadow. But solid shadow, much bigger than him. And to me again, that was sort of a parallel with another aspect of himself.
Interviewer: Okay. Great. Thank you. And do you think there was something that wanted or needed to be expressed through this artwork?
Interviewer: Something that wanted or needed to be expressed through the creation of this sculpture. Yeah, I think whenever somebody makes a piece there's something that you have a need to express, because otherwise you wouldn't invest the time and effort to create it, and there's a cost like bronze is pretty expensive. I wish I could remember what and the gallery might not even have a motivation behind the piece, which leaves it up to the interpretation of the viewer. But I think this was during the war, and I don't know if he's, I don't remember if he's from Italy or Switzerland, but this is 1948 so it's sort of post-war, and I'm sure there was some political motivation in his mind about reflecting that. And I mean you could read all sorts of things into it like with the Holocaust and the shape of the figures.
But I don't think that's where it's coming from. I do think that it is how he tried to see people.
And there's a quote that impacted me so deeply that I took a photo of it, because it was different than how I saw art and this is why it impacted me, and it relates to maybe, how he meant to express whatever he was trying to say. His quote was or the sense of it was that, when you're doing art, you should not do art with any interpretation. Like you when you do it, like. If you're going to paint a portrait of a man, you don't paint the portrait of a man as you see the man, you paint the man as he really is.
I think from what I've known about art, it's all about self-expression and interpretation. And what he was describing is how I think a lot of anatomical pictures are made, like the proportions of the real human figure. And he is definitely someone who is capable of drawing in that way, and I mean his drawing was amazing and realistic, very realistic. But his, the way his art came out. This is how he saw them realistically and no part of himself was inserted is sort of what was the implication from the quote.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then I know you've already talked a little bit about this, but when and where did the experience of interaction with this sculpture,
When and where did it happen? And then was there anyone else involved besides you?
PARTICIPANT: This happened in the summer. I would say it was in August or so. July. It was in July.
And I was with my friend, who used to be a co-worker. She just randomly invited me, so, we work for the university, and we get some perks, like we get some free tickets to certain things. And, she had an extra ticket to the Art Museum, and there was this exhibit, and she just, I don't know, she just wanted to go with somebody. So, I went up there with her, and I didn't know what to expect. I did not do research on who he was, and I think maybe the emotional aspect might have had, sorry. I might have been a little bit more emotional because of recent, like my best friend died tragically, so that, I was coming from the aftermath of that.
And so, I think part of me was almost in a different reality because of that, you know, thinking more deeply about the meaning of life. And you know, purpose and all that stuff. And so, walking into this was like walking into a different world, almost. Kind of, you know, kind of I don't know. I mean, get your imagination going, which I think is a lot easier when you're in a more like open, sensitive type space.
Interviewer: Yeah. Thank you for sharing. So, could you talk a little bit about what you were thinking and feeling at different times through the process of interacting with this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: By the time I reached the sculpture it was towards the end of the exhibit, and I think walking in, it was almost like walking in initially, not knowing what to expect. You're kind of hit with the strangeness of it. And you're wondering, okay, what's all this about? And as you walk through it became more and more interesting because of the strangeness. And, at first there's not really an emotional connection, you're just trying to figure out what this is about. But, by the time I reached these later exhibits, which this was later in the exhibit, and then I went back and was able to look at the other ones with a different interpretation.
I was thinking about the artist. They had lots of little snippets of his life, and where he was at, and the type of person he was, and like how his style changed over the years and the evolution. And so, I was thinking a lot about that. I was thinking a lot about how people should evolve, or they do naturally.
And yeah, because there's, it's inevitable, people are going to evolve, people are going to change. But the direction they change, and if they choose to change it in a conscious way, or do they just do it haphazardly, which is almost sort of like when you do art. Is it something that you intend to do? Or does it something you just do, and it evolves naturally, and you wind up with what you wind up with?
And so, I mean, I get, I do get kind of philosophical, so I think I was kind of going in with the questions of how much control do we have over life, and who we are?
Interviewer: And then could you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points in your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: it's interesting to ask about high lights or low lights, because I think I go in with pretty neutral expectations, more just kind of open curiosity, and I mean, when I think of, when you say low lights, I think in terms of disappointments, or being critical, like a critical eye on technique, and I never had any of that Again, with the highlights, I think it was sort of the element of surprise.
That feeling, not expecting a sculpture to affect me like that.
Interviewer: Let’s talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
PARTICIPANT: It's hard, because right now I'm trying to pull out this specific sculpture versus the whole, just all of the experience. That I could be so affected. I mean, that was kind of a surprise to be, you know, to have emotion evoked, and to be able to see different things. I learned that was important to me. I learned that something like this cold metal was strange looking. There are no faces, so there's no emotion, but the fact that it can make you feel something without that was weird to me.
And really made me think about again, that quote earlier I had read, so that I had that in my mind, but it also just made me realize how much the viewer puts on themselves into that, interpreting expression. When there's really nothing there. If you look at it just subjectively and neutrally, there's like, it's just, I mean, yeah, it's just interesting the way you move around the sculpture. How they're like really thin! But when you move in a certain way, they become more real, like almost like real as in they look a little bit more fleshed out. And the fact that I was interpreting, I was putting an interpretation into it that had a lot of meaning to me. But you look at it and it doesn't really mean anything.
Interviewer: And then you've already talked a little bit about this, and it kind of builds on your last answer. But did you think that the artist intended for this work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
PARTICIPANT: Yes. He had a lot of commission to work, so I'm sure there was a lot of direction that he got from people who were either his patrons or anybody. But again, it was a very political time.
It was, you know, a time of recovery like socially, a lot of repair, a lot of disarray, you know destruction, and trying to build that back up, but also trying to like form new facets, new different movements of art, and trying to find people who appreciate your work, because in my mind that sort of bonds you to those people. And whether or not an artist intends to make an emotional impact or an intellectual impact, I think, yeah, for him, I think so.
I just don't know what it is because I didn't pay attention to that part of it.
Interviewer: And then did your experience with this sculpture affect your understanding of others or the world?
PARTICIPANT: Yeah, and I think by others, that can kind of be interpreted. To me, it can be interpreted a couple of ways. By others, it could mean, like outside groups or organizations or societies like others, and outside of your little circle that you're used to running with.
My initial reaction when you asked that was other, as in other than me. Other like as an individual. So, a big part of it was what we already talked about was trying to understand the artist and what was being said. But again, at that time it's just from the lens of what I was, where I was at in the time in terms of the world. Yeah, I think the there was a huge impact in connecting with other artists.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then this prompt is a little bit longer, so we'll just go ahead and read it. When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
When people think about themselves, they see part of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
PARTICIPANT: That's a really interesting question. I think, in my mind it would be almost the opposite, like if it brought out any parts of myself that I thought were inauthentic. Because, I don't know, I feel like I am my true self. And I think maybe that's what connected was that I felt like this was authentic and genuine. Maybe that's what helped resonate with that, like with the strangeness and not feeling like.
Like most of the figures are solitary. But terms of like those aspects of yourself that are false or in authentic. I never considered myself an artist, or necessarily an art lover.
And so, being an artist, I had the hardest time calling myself that it's like that impostor syndrome, and I still don't really think of myself as an artist, so I think there is a part of it that kind of drew me out, and like feeling like a fraud in a sense of what I do as compared to what he does, cause he's an artist, and here I am doing all this stuff trying to be an artist when it's like playing.
And I don't feel like an artist at all. But this is guy who's trained, he's an artist like a real thing. He’s got commissions, and I mean. world renowned, you know. That to me is an artist. But here I am, I'm just kind of like doing stuff for more mental health stuff, you know. And I feel like because I tend to think a lot. So, I think it's hard when you're so kind of self-absorbed or insulated, and you know, I don't know, Introverted, in a sense like you focus so much on like yourself, and how you would interact with the world.
It's hard to separate from being disingenuous from that being inauthentic because you're living in yourself all the time. And that's more obvious than those inauthentic parts. And so, it was more, if anything, and again, this is not what I was going through at the time. If I, looking back, there was some sense of bringing out what was inauthentic in me, and it was number one, that whole imposter syndrome.
Interviewer: Alright, Thank you. So, the next prompt’s also a little bit longer. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: No. If anything, I think I kind of learned the opposite, that there is no inherent meaning.
Like as an individual in the experience. I mean, I guess that's ultimate meaning. It's all in you, your perspective.
Interviewer: And then, as some people believe or perceive, a reality beyond the physical or material world. This might include religious beliefs and experiences but may also include mystical or transcendent experiences or interaction with spirits.
Now, did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: No.
Interviewer: And then, even if you didn't have that kind of experience, you might have felt some sort of inspiration or guidance or encouragement, or a sense of presence or connection.
Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with the sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: Yes.
Interviewer: And then, could you talk a little bit about what that experience was like, and then how it may have affected you as a person and your either religious and spiritual beliefs or world views, if at all?
PARTICIPANT: Again, this happened a few months ago, and there's a lot of things going on at the time, and in hindsight, I could probably apply more meaning to it than I did at the time. There is something about his biography that struck me as giving me permission to consider myself.
And again, I think it goes back to that quote of like doing a portrait of somebody as he really is and not as how you interpret it, because you're going to wind up interpreting that person to be anyway, because everybody is different, and in ways that kind of gave me a sense of freedom.
And, you know that's kind of motive, you know. Like it’s just part of the human experience
Like, I don't have that same experience, but there's that core driving force, anyway. So, it might not make sense to people why, I feel that drive.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. I just have a couple of quicker follow up questions. So how old were you when you interacted with the sculpture?
How old were you when you first interacted with this piece?
PARTICIPANT: 46.
Interviewer: And then how do you perceive the quality of this sculpture?
PARTICIPANT: High quality to me. It’s, the quality is more human-like, more real.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. Oh, yeah, that was all great. Thank you so much.
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