Interview Summary
This person selected a painting done by artist Anselm Kiefer, called Lot’s Wife. The painting references a biblical story and depicts a railroad in the distance. It is a large painting with three-dimensional features, such as cement, chalk, and ash. It has a distinctive texture. The person believes the railroad tracks are symbolic of the trains in concentration camps and they find that this painting puts two stories together and has a strong visual impact. It’s their favorite painting at the Cleveland Museum of Art, where they spend a lot of their time there. The size of the painting impacted them greatly because you feel immersed into the artwork. It elicits a strong emotional response and shares this artwork as their favorite with another friend. Sadness and empathy are a strong emotion from looking at the artwork, but they also feel it is very thought provoking. This painting made them realize that there is artwork out there that can bring in a strong emotional response. They hope that the artist intended for their work to affect others as he is a contemporary artist. This person believes that in this art, Anselm Kiefer seems to be asking why something so terrible happened, and there is no answer. They gathered inconclusiveness rather than a defined meaning. This person first saw this artwork when they were 10 years old, but 32 when they most recently saw it again, and they perceive it as very high quality.
Interview Transcript
Interviewer: Okay so, in this interview we're interested in asking you to tell us about interacting with an artwork created by another artist.
And we'd like to focus on your interaction with a particular artwork that someone else created. It could be famous, or it could be a work that's not well known it could be an artwork created by anyone other than you. So, I wonder, have you already chosen your artwork?
Participant: it is a painting by the artist Anselm Kiefer, that is usually on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art in their contemporary gallery.
It's called Lot's Wife,
Interviewer: All right. Can you describe it for me?
Participant: It is a very large painting that has like some three-dimensional features to it. I think it’s made out of both paint, but also things like cement and chalk and ash. So, it has like a really distinctive texture that when you get really close to it. It looks like it's kind of crumbling off the painting.
It depicts like a railroad going off into the distance, and has a lot of really abstract features, especially the sky has an interesting kind of just two-dimensional quality that contrasts a lot with the 3-dimensional view of these railroad tracks going off into the distance.
The piece is called Lot’s Wife, which references the biblical story about Lot and his wife leaving.
I don't know the full story really in detail, but it's about leaving I think the city of Gomorrah or Sodom, and Lot's wife was told not to look back at the city, but she did, and was turned into a pillar of salt.
And so, I think there's salt on the actual painting as well. I think that may be one of the things that it was made out of. I know that the piece kind of also contrasts with Anselm Kiefer’s art, which a lot of it has centered around Judaism and mystical Judaism. And so, you know, he's German, and was born in 1945 and so this painting also references the Holocaust and
I think the railroad tracks are symbolic of the trains that took many Jews away to concentration camps. And so, he kind of is putting those two stories together in an interesting way that I think has a strong visual impact.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. Why did you choose this one? (Specialness)
Participant: It's my favorite piece of artwork at the Cleveland Museum of Art. I've spent a lot of time there and I think it's just an amazing work.
It just, when I saw the study, it was the first thing that came to mind.
Interviewer: Perfect. Now what led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this piece?
Participant: I think the first, I don't remember the first time I saw it, because it's been at the art museum for a very long time and you know I've been visiting that place, you know, since I was a kid, and so I don't have like a really distinctive first memory.
But I think one of the reasons that I think it’s really impactful because of its size.
It's probably like 10 feet long by maybe 8 feet tall, or something like that. And when you’re standing in front of it, it feels like you’re really immersed in it.
You know, you can barely see the edges.
And when you're standing right in the front of it too it looks really different from when you stand far back. And so, I think it just really elicits a strong emotional response, because it's a very powerful piece.
Interviewer: And you've talked a little bit about exploring this piece at the Cleveland Museum of Art.
When and where did the experience happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)? Have you only experienced it on your own or was someone else present?
Participant: I distinctly remember talking with another friend of mine, who we were like, oh, what's your favorite piece of art? And we had the same one which I was like, oh, my gosh! That's, what a crazy coincidence that you know it's not a super famous piece of artwork unless you know this museum very well or know the artist. And so, I've definitely shared that moment where I was like, wow! What a crazy coincidence that we said the same thing.
I guess Another instance that I've explored it was, you know, maybe not in person at the Cleveland Museum of Art. But when I was in college, I ended up writing about it as part of like an undergraduate thesis.
And so, exploring it alongside my advisors there. And so, you know I wasn't going to school in Cleveland, I wasn't looking at the original, even though I had seen it plenty of times um just, you know, looking at the images online and exploring the artist more.
Interviewer: Great, and then, what were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the artwork?
Participant: Um, certainly feel awe-inspired by it. Definitely sadness is a strong emotion that I feel when I look at this piece. I think it also elicits, just like, it's very thought provoking, and turns on parts of your brain to kind of reconcile the two stories.
And empathy would be another feeling, thinking about like the darkness that the artist felt around the content.
Interviewer: Great, and then Can you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points along the way?
Participant: I've always been involved in art. And people say like, oh, what's your favorite piece of art? And I think it wasn't always this piece, and so maybe like defining that this was one that like especially spoke to me, makes it speak to you more in a way by like choosing to identify with it. I'm choosing to talk about it with other people. And that probably happened sometime in my like early twenties that I like for whatever reason homed in, especially on this.
So maybe that was like a pivotal point.
Interviewer: Great, thank you, Let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Um I think maybe I learned that I can be affected by artwork, because it does have like a strong emotional response, and I don't often get that with artwork, because I don't know see it all the time, but I'm not like super sentimental. But with this one I realized that there's artwork out there that can do that for me.
Interviewer: Yeah, sure. And then do you think that the artists intended the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: Yes, I would hope so.
I think Anselm Kiefer in particular is maybe an interesting artist, because he is a contemporary artist who exist in the like mainstream contemporary art world, but also makes art with like overly religious content. Which I think those two, like realms of our world, don't overlap very much. Usually, religious art is either like kitsch art, or, you know, exist in a church for a really specific reason and isn't in the art museum besides, as like, historical objects.
So like, the fact that a contemporary artist is making overtly religious artwork is unique. And I think he executed that well, and I think it elicits complex thoughts from people who maybe don't think about religion very much.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or “the world?”
Participant: I think maybe just thinking about a German artist who is making art about the Holocaust just reminds me that all people are complex and multifaceted. And, you know, I think when you look at an artist’s work you understand a little bit of them in a way that isn't described with like words or sentences. So, I guess, like yes, on an individual basis.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: Okay. And then this prompt is a little bit longer.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Participant: Not specifically, I would say that I agree with that statement, that there's like a everyone has, like a true authentic self in there somewhere. But I'm not sure that this piece affected my understanding of that.
Interviewer: Sure. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the artwork?
Participant: I picked, like the perfect piece of art for this question. Because it it like, in this piece of art, Anselm Kiefer seems to be asking why About something so terrible that happened like ultimate suffering.
And I don't think it answers the question, I think it's a piece of art that explicitly just asks why, and is definitely not like nihilistic in any sense, but is very mournful.
And it doesn't have an answer. And so, I would say like that inconclusiveness is what I gathered from it, rather than like defined meaning.
Interviewer: Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any kind of these experiences during the interaction with the artwork?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: Okay, that's, and then, even if you didn't have an experience like that, you might have felt some inspiration or guidance or encouragement from non, physical, or supernatural, or maybe a sense of presence or connection. Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with this artwork?
Participant: I guess I felt a connection with history, like a connection to true events that happened in the past, but not otherwise.
And then has that connection, what did that,
Interviewer: What was that experience like? And has it affected you as a person or your beliefs, if at all?
Participant: I think it was, you know you, you read about history you read about artists you read about, you know, the content of the work that they produce, and so you can read the story about the Holocaust, or you know how the Bible was written, or whatever. But there is like
only so much you can absorb from an interpretation that's been put into words that when you look at an image that has no words in it, although technically there is a word, I think it has Lot’s Frau down at the bottom, which means Lot’s wife in in chalk there. I think you can experience it in a different way than like intellectually reading a book or hearing someone talk.
And so yeah, there's just, you get to experience this thing in a small way that isn't your life. But maybe, yeah, you're just experiencing it or the artist is trying to interpret something that doesn't have words for you. And I think he does that very well.
Interviewer: Great, thank you. I just have a few quicker follow ups. What age were you when you interacted with this artwork?
Participant: I probably first saw it when I was 10 years old and most recently saw it, like, you know, this year at age 32.
Interviewer: And then I think I know the answer to this question but, how do you perceive the quality of this work?
Participant: I think the quality is very high. I think he accomplished what he set out to do with this piece.
Interviewer: And then did you want to say anything what was going on in your life at the time that you interacted with this artwork? Does anything stand out?
Participant: No, I guess I would say that maybe I like to identify with it more and more as I get older.
Participant: But there's not a specific like event that I'm associating with it.
Interviewer: Okay, that was great. Thank you so much.
This person selected a painting done by artist Anselm Kiefer, called Lot’s Wife. The painting references a biblical story and depicts a railroad in the distance. It is a large painting with three-dimensional features, such as cement, chalk, and ash. It has a distinctive texture. The person believes the railroad tracks are symbolic of the trains in concentration camps and they find that this painting puts two stories together and has a strong visual impact. It’s their favorite painting at the Cleveland Museum of Art, where they spend a lot of their time there. The size of the painting impacted them greatly because you feel immersed into the artwork. It elicits a strong emotional response and shares this artwork as their favorite with another friend. Sadness and empathy are a strong emotion from looking at the artwork, but they also feel it is very thought provoking. This painting made them realize that there is artwork out there that can bring in a strong emotional response. They hope that the artist intended for their work to affect others as he is a contemporary artist. This person believes that in this art, Anselm Kiefer seems to be asking why something so terrible happened, and there is no answer. They gathered inconclusiveness rather than a defined meaning. This person first saw this artwork when they were 10 years old, but 32 when they most recently saw it again, and they perceive it as very high quality.
Interview Transcript
Interviewer: Okay so, in this interview we're interested in asking you to tell us about interacting with an artwork created by another artist.
And we'd like to focus on your interaction with a particular artwork that someone else created. It could be famous, or it could be a work that's not well known it could be an artwork created by anyone other than you. So, I wonder, have you already chosen your artwork?
Participant: it is a painting by the artist Anselm Kiefer, that is usually on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art in their contemporary gallery.
It's called Lot's Wife,
Interviewer: All right. Can you describe it for me?
Participant: It is a very large painting that has like some three-dimensional features to it. I think it’s made out of both paint, but also things like cement and chalk and ash. So, it has like a really distinctive texture that when you get really close to it. It looks like it's kind of crumbling off the painting.
It depicts like a railroad going off into the distance, and has a lot of really abstract features, especially the sky has an interesting kind of just two-dimensional quality that contrasts a lot with the 3-dimensional view of these railroad tracks going off into the distance.
The piece is called Lot’s Wife, which references the biblical story about Lot and his wife leaving.
I don't know the full story really in detail, but it's about leaving I think the city of Gomorrah or Sodom, and Lot's wife was told not to look back at the city, but she did, and was turned into a pillar of salt.
And so, I think there's salt on the actual painting as well. I think that may be one of the things that it was made out of. I know that the piece kind of also contrasts with Anselm Kiefer’s art, which a lot of it has centered around Judaism and mystical Judaism. And so, you know, he's German, and was born in 1945 and so this painting also references the Holocaust and
I think the railroad tracks are symbolic of the trains that took many Jews away to concentration camps. And so, he kind of is putting those two stories together in an interesting way that I think has a strong visual impact.
Interviewer: Great. Thank you. Why did you choose this one? (Specialness)
Participant: It's my favorite piece of artwork at the Cleveland Museum of Art. I've spent a lot of time there and I think it's just an amazing work.
It just, when I saw the study, it was the first thing that came to mind.
Interviewer: Perfect. Now what led up to the interaction? What motivated you to explore this piece?
Participant: I think the first, I don't remember the first time I saw it, because it's been at the art museum for a very long time and you know I've been visiting that place, you know, since I was a kid, and so I don't have like a really distinctive first memory.
But I think one of the reasons that I think it’s really impactful because of its size.
It's probably like 10 feet long by maybe 8 feet tall, or something like that. And when you’re standing in front of it, it feels like you’re really immersed in it.
You know, you can barely see the edges.
And when you're standing right in the front of it too it looks really different from when you stand far back. And so, I think it just really elicits a strong emotional response, because it's a very powerful piece.
Interviewer: And you've talked a little bit about exploring this piece at the Cleveland Museum of Art.
When and where did the experience happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)? Have you only experienced it on your own or was someone else present?
Participant: I distinctly remember talking with another friend of mine, who we were like, oh, what's your favorite piece of art? And we had the same one which I was like, oh, my gosh! That's, what a crazy coincidence that you know it's not a super famous piece of artwork unless you know this museum very well or know the artist. And so, I've definitely shared that moment where I was like, wow! What a crazy coincidence that we said the same thing.
I guess Another instance that I've explored it was, you know, maybe not in person at the Cleveland Museum of Art. But when I was in college, I ended up writing about it as part of like an undergraduate thesis.
And so, exploring it alongside my advisors there. And so, you know I wasn't going to school in Cleveland, I wasn't looking at the original, even though I had seen it plenty of times um just, you know, looking at the images online and exploring the artist more.
Interviewer: Great, and then, what were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of interacting with the artwork?
Participant: Um, certainly feel awe-inspired by it. Definitely sadness is a strong emotion that I feel when I look at this piece. I think it also elicits, just like, it's very thought provoking, and turns on parts of your brain to kind of reconcile the two stories.
And empathy would be another feeling, thinking about like the darkness that the artist felt around the content.
Interviewer: Great, and then Can you describe any high points, low points, or challenges, or turning points along the way?
Participant: I've always been involved in art. And people say like, oh, what's your favorite piece of art? And I think it wasn't always this piece, and so maybe like defining that this was one that like especially spoke to me, makes it speak to you more in a way by like choosing to identify with it. I'm choosing to talk about it with other people. And that probably happened sometime in my like early twenties that I like for whatever reason homed in, especially on this.
So maybe that was like a pivotal point.
Interviewer: Great, thank you, Let's talk about the impact of the artwork on you and your life. What did you learn from the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Um I think maybe I learned that I can be affected by artwork, because it does have like a strong emotional response, and I don't often get that with artwork, because I don't know see it all the time, but I'm not like super sentimental. But with this one I realized that there's artwork out there that can do that for me.
Interviewer: Yeah, sure. And then do you think that the artists intended the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Participant: Yes, I would hope so.
I think Anselm Kiefer in particular is maybe an interesting artist, because he is a contemporary artist who exist in the like mainstream contemporary art world, but also makes art with like overly religious content. Which I think those two, like realms of our world, don't overlap very much. Usually, religious art is either like kitsch art, or, you know, exist in a church for a really specific reason and isn't in the art museum besides, as like, historical objects.
So like, the fact that a contemporary artist is making overtly religious artwork is unique. And I think he executed that well, and I think it elicits complex thoughts from people who maybe don't think about religion very much.
Interviewer: Thank you. And then did your experience with the artwork affect your understanding of others or “the world?”
Participant: I think maybe just thinking about a German artist who is making art about the Holocaust just reminds me that all people are complex and multifaceted. And, you know, I think when you look at an artist’s work you understand a little bit of them in a way that isn't described with like words or sentences. So, I guess, like yes, on an individual basis.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: Okay. And then this prompt is a little bit longer.
When some people think about themselves, they see parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process of interacting with the artwork? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Participant: Not specifically, I would say that I agree with that statement, that there's like a everyone has, like a true authentic self in there somewhere. But I'm not sure that this piece affected my understanding of that.
Interviewer: Sure. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This defined as deep, underlying meaning that transcends subjective personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process of interacting with the artwork?
Participant: I picked, like the perfect piece of art for this question. Because it it like, in this piece of art, Anselm Kiefer seems to be asking why About something so terrible that happened like ultimate suffering.
And I don't think it answers the question, I think it's a piece of art that explicitly just asks why, and is definitely not like nihilistic in any sense, but is very mournful.
And it doesn't have an answer. And so, I would say like that inconclusiveness is what I gathered from it, rather than like defined meaning.
Interviewer: Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any kind of these experiences during the interaction with the artwork?
Participant: No.
Interviewer: Okay, that's, and then, even if you didn't have an experience like that, you might have felt some inspiration or guidance or encouragement from non, physical, or supernatural, or maybe a sense of presence or connection. Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during your interaction with this artwork?
Participant: I guess I felt a connection with history, like a connection to true events that happened in the past, but not otherwise.
And then has that connection, what did that,
Interviewer: What was that experience like? And has it affected you as a person or your beliefs, if at all?
Participant: I think it was, you know you, you read about history you read about artists you read about, you know, the content of the work that they produce, and so you can read the story about the Holocaust, or you know how the Bible was written, or whatever. But there is like
only so much you can absorb from an interpretation that's been put into words that when you look at an image that has no words in it, although technically there is a word, I think it has Lot’s Frau down at the bottom, which means Lot’s wife in in chalk there. I think you can experience it in a different way than like intellectually reading a book or hearing someone talk.
And so yeah, there's just, you get to experience this thing in a small way that isn't your life. But maybe, yeah, you're just experiencing it or the artist is trying to interpret something that doesn't have words for you. And I think he does that very well.
Interviewer: Great, thank you. I just have a few quicker follow ups. What age were you when you interacted with this artwork?
Participant: I probably first saw it when I was 10 years old and most recently saw it, like, you know, this year at age 32.
Interviewer: And then I think I know the answer to this question but, how do you perceive the quality of this work?
Participant: I think the quality is very high. I think he accomplished what he set out to do with this piece.
Interviewer: And then did you want to say anything what was going on in your life at the time that you interacted with this artwork? Does anything stand out?
Participant: No, I guess I would say that maybe I like to identify with it more and more as I get older.
Participant: But there's not a specific like event that I'm associating with it.
Interviewer: Okay, that was great. Thank you so much.
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