Maximus Allen discussed the experience of acting in the play, In the Red and Brown Water
Interview Summary
The participant chose to discuss their portrayal of the character, Elegba, in the play, “In the Red and Brown Water.” This production was meaningful to them due to the nearly all-black cast, which made them feel validated as an artist of color, in addition to the play being a positive experience overall. As a theater major, they auditioned for the production because they were intrigued by the synopsis, liked the contrast between themselves and the character, and felt a connection with the director. The production was put on with the participant and several other students who were both cast and crew. They later noted how much they valued working in this collaborative environment and grew to have an appreciation for everyone involved. They felt excited throughout the entire process; however, their commitment to the play did cause them to have issues with keeping up with coursework and maintaining relationships.
This process helped the participant learn about themselves as an artist, learning to trust themselves, being proud of their work, and feeling validated as a queer/person of color artist. They also mentioned the importance of having good guidance from the director and working in an understanding, collaborative space. Friends and family generally enjoyed the performance, making note of how different the character was from the participant. Regarding authenticity, they mentioned how authenticity in character portrayal comes from behind the scenes. They specifically mentioned the importance of representing a character appropriately and without stereotypes, especially when they come from the same marginalized background(s) as the character. When asked about ultimate meaning, they mentioned how the play deals with suffering and spirituality. Additionally, they stated that this experience allowed them to broaden their view on religion, as Yoruba was highlighted in the piece, although they are agnostic. They did not mention any supernatural encounters related to the creation of their character, but alluded to being guided by fate more generally in life.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
Interviewer: Okay, great. So do you see that's recording?
Participant: Yes, I do.
Description
Interviewer: Amazing, so as you know, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions about an artwork you created, and the first one is to ask you to tell me what it is.
Participant: Yeah, of course. My freshman year of college, I'm a theater major at USC with an acting emphasis, and so part of our curriculum requirement, as an option, we have different stage plays that we put on throughout the year. And my freshman year, I portrayed a character in this play, called In the Red and Brown Water, written by Tarell Alvin McCraney. He was the, one of the co-writers of Moonlight, that was his story of that film. And this is a series of plays that he wrote when he was in college. And yeah, I wanted to talk about that experience.
Why did you choose this one? (Specialness)
Interviewer: Amazing, so, what, like can you describe it a little bit more like what are the important details and like, why do you choose to talk about this one for this study?
Participant: Yeah, I chose to talk about this because it, it's pretty meaningful to me in terms of like my career. The play was mostly an all-black cast and so it kind of validated me as like an artist of color. And it was really this, it was this really unique feeling of, I knew that the way that we were going to portray this play, and especially for me in this character, was so unique, and in that I will perform this and be done with it, and literally, no one will be able to perform like a character in that certain way, as in like, this character is kind of my own now. It's whatever I make it. And it was just a really awesome experience. It was the first time I did a play in college. I had done high school theater, and so it was kind of like making a transition, I'm from a very small town in Mississippi. And so, you know, coming to Los Angeles and kind of making that successful transition. It was like a lead role in my freshman year and I was really fortunate to have it, and a lot of work was put into it. We rehearsed for about like 4 to 5 hours every day for 5 weeks during school and on top of classes and we had a dialect coach and we had, what did we have? We had a cultural consultant. It dealed with the play’s story, it dealed with Yoruba mythology and cosmology, and that's basically religion of a sector of like Southwest Nigeria. And so a lot of care was put into it by the entire cast, and everybody behind it. And being able to translate that onto a stage and perform it for like 5 nights was a really awesome experience.
Interviewer: That is like a lot of work. Oh, my God! 4 to 5 hours! That's crazy.
Participant: It was really crazy. It was like 6 pm to 10 pm, so like to go to classes and then like.
Interviewer: No that’s crazy. Okay
Process of Creating
What led up to its creation? What motivated you to create it?
Interviewer: So what led up to this creation and like what motivated you to like create it basically?
Participant: Yeah. What led up to it, I would say, was the, in terms of me auditioning, I had to audition for the part obviously, and they release a season of plays at the beginning of every school year, so you can see the lineup of different plays and see if there are any that you're interested in, and you want to audition for and I saw this one. The title was really intriguing In the Red and Brown Water. I read the little synopsis. I was like, okay, that sounds pretty cool. And my first week of USC I attended a, I attended a diversity, equity, and inclusion workshop and the person who oversaw that was going to be the director of this play and she is like co-head of undergraduate acting. She was like the head of our DEI program and I kind of just saw like her welcoming attitude. Her personality really came through, her like maternal instincts, and I was like, and she's like a woman of color, and Anita Dashiell Sparks is her name. She's a black actress and director, on and off Broadway actress, and professor now. And I knew I was like, okay, I, I want to learn from her and so I auditioned for this play, I specifically, I didn't want any like
small role, so I specifically, like in my audition, I stated the role that I wanted, and basically her play was kind of the only one I auditioned for, and I auditioned for, like a Shakespeare play. I was really invested in it and I auditioned for it. This was online actually, because coming into the spring semester of 2022 classes were still online. And so I auditioned online, 2 hour time difference in my little like bedroom in Mississippi, and it was like I was on the zoom from like 8 to 12 at night time, and I had these auditions, and I had callbacks and it was just really cool. What inspired me was, the character was very like separated from myself, but in a lot of times, in acting you want to find different parts of yourself and kind of showcase that through the character and this character was the youngest character in the play, he's 12 years old, and you go through this whole arc where the play progresses by 4 years. There's like a 4-year time stamp. And in pursuit of this character, I did not know at the time, but I got to essentially develop his speaking voice. He's kind of rag-tag or rough around the edges. He gets into a lot of mischief. His character symbolizes like the god of mischief in Yoruba mythology. His name is Elegba, and so he steals all the time he has this huge potty mouth. And so it was just a different side of myself that I got to explore on stage in front of people. I got to develop his speaking voice as like he grew older from like 12 to like 16, and so he was the youngest character in the play and he was a character that was explicitly like stated, or at least hinted at, his sexual orientation. He was bisexual, and so I just thought he was a really good stride in terms of representation and the type of characters I would like to portray in my career.
Interviewer: Wow, you auditioned online. I can't like picture that like it's, it's crazy. It's like I can barely have classes like what.
Participant: It was crazy. The audition process was online, but everything else, all the rehearsals, that was in person. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. That's that's so, wow.
When and where did the work happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)?
Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. okay. So when and where did the work happen? And then who was involved beside you? So it was your freshman year, you were in college. So then the question is, who was involved beside you, if anyone was?
Participant: Yeah, we had a pretty small cast, obviously our cast and crew. So in theater this is your, your playwright was not involved, but we have obviously the rights to perform this play from him. Playwrights. We have our director, Anita Dashiell Sparks. We have stage managers in theater, which are essentially the film equivalent of like producers and executive producers who are also students. They manage everything. They're on a headset. They oversee like where all the props go, everything like that. They have like a bird's eye view of everything, and they're just like there for safety and accommodations and everything like that. I believe we had an intimacy coordinator and that was for certain characters who had like intimate scenes. We'd refer to them, and we'd have a closed set, obviously so, it would just be those 2 actors performing.
We had a cultural consultant to learn about Yoruba mythology and symbolism and culture. We had a dialect coach, Kathleen Dunn-Muzingo, she's also a professor here at USC. We had all of our cast, which is about like 12 to 13 people. Half of us were freshmen, and the other half were seniors, coincidentally, so, it was really interesting. It was really interesting. It was really good learning experience, especially like on my part, and seeing how everyone operates in that space, very professional. The school made sure it was like very professional up with industry standards, our rehearsal process, and then on top of that they came in about like 2 weeks before the show performed, or the last week. We had our crew and that's like people who do props. That's , these are all students by the way, people who do props, people who did sound, lighting, people who are in charge of costumes, and then on top of that kind of their bosses were the designers, the lighting designers, the costume designers, the sound designers. These people who like created this, like basically painted the world of this play like from its conception and yeah, so a lot of a lot more moving parts than you would think for a play.
Interviewer: That's a lot of like coordination, and like everyone has to be organized because if not, this is gonna go bad.
ParticipantL: Yeah.
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of creating the artwork?
Interviewer: Okay. What were you thinking and feeling, at the different times throughout the process? So like beginning, middle, and end sort of.
Participant: Yeah. Well, our first week was not really acting. Our first week was our process called like table reads, and all the actors gathered around the table with the director and we're all reading through the script together and basically, you know, stating our own opinions, our own interpretations of our scenes, and what the material is in front of us. And so our first week of rehearsal was literally just that. It was just us sitting in a room for a week in like the PE building of our school because we have like some acting classes there as well, and like. We have literally like USC like Division I athletes there as well. We're all sharing a space, all of us a week in a classroom in the PE building, like reading through the script, dissecting, and analyzing the script for like 4 hours a day. And it was a really really enlightening experience, so at the beginning was really awesome. I always wanted to be, I always had an interest in writing when I was younger. I didn't know I wanted to do acting until like high school and I always wanted to be an author. So all actors are storytellers essentially, and so, being able to really dissect a story like that was really conducive to like my own creative process. So a lot of excitement, a lot of excitement towards the beginning. And then, I guess, towards the middle, that's when things are getting real. You're learning your blocking, which is essentially that's putting movement to the text so like that's like actors moving around in the space, like all of that is coordinated. So we are putting blocking to our lines and, you know, I'm just like my character was in it for a fair amount of time. So I'm just trying to remember all of these things, and I, in my script, I draw a lot, and so like I draw like diagrams. I would draw like eyeballs for different lines, I knew I’d want to make eye contact with just different, weird things. Like if I showed you. I have my script right here actually, like if I showed like someone like, they would have no idea like what any of this means, like just a random stuff that I put on it. It's just like very like random, and it wouldn't make sense to a lot of people. It's just really like random stuff. It's like kind of incomprehensible, whatever is on here. But, so there was that, it was, it was still exciting. I was excited through the whole process, really. And then it was spring break. So that's like a one week break in between all of our rehearsals and basically that was when we had to learn all of our lines. And so, you know, just good thing for me. I have a pretty good memory, so it's not that hard for me to memorize lines but it's just like re-reading, rereading, rereading the same thing going back
building on top of that. I want to do that and then towards the end was really awesome, because I encouraged all my friends to go. All of my roommates came out and supported me. All of my friends came out and supported me and my family as well, and I invited them all. Like I come from, I’m half Vietnamese, so we have, like a very big Asian side of my family. And so my mom flew in from Mississippi, my cousin, her fiancée, and my 3 other cousins came out to support me. And my friends and roommates came out for me, and coincidentally, it was the same night, so they both all so like, I had, like a whole like audience like ,and the theater was pretty small too, so like 20 seats practically were just like my own supporters. And I was like, wow, this is awesome! So there's that. And then I, that was kind of nerve-racking because I was like, okay. Now, this is kind of like, kind of prove myself. Show other people what I have and show my mom that you know this like education, and these tuition prices are not going to waste. And then,yeah, I had also invited some of my professors to come and see it. And yeah, it was, it was so, I guess professionally it was such a milestone for me. Mentally it was pretty exhausting. It was really really tough actually. We have this whole thing in our school, where, you know your participation in plays is not supposed to affect your performances in any classes, essentially. And you know, I mean, I just told you about like it was 4 hours a day, 6 to 10 PM every day, and I'm just like how could they not affect someone's performance in classes? And so it definitely affected mine. Essentially, I'm a freshman, you know I don't really cook for myself. I didn't really cook for myself yet, and so our dining halls would be closed after my rehearsal, so I'd have to buy like frozen meals, and like groceries like a week in advance and eat that. And then I wouldn't have any time for homework, either, because my classes would end, and I would go straight to this 4 hour rehearsal. And so I was, I’m really a night owl, but it was really like, it was really like put to the forefront with this. Like I was doing like homework and eating dinner at like midnight to like 3 am. And then I still had to go to my classes the next day after. So I did drop off in attendance from some of my classes. So I did struggle with that a bit, but I was still able to keep up with like pretty good grades for my freshman year, but mentally very taxing. Artistically and emotionally, very rewarding, and I don't regret the experience at all. It was an incredible experience.
Interviewer: It does sound like a lot, though, like I can just imagine just like going, like being tired from class, just going to the rehearsal, and then just not being able to sleep because you still have homework like.
Participant: It was crazy. I told my friends basically you won't see me for the next month because I'm, all my time is going to be in this. I literally, because we would usually get dinners together like that's how we would bond, and like I'm not going to be available for dinner, literally for like the next month. So like bye guys like you'll see me when the show is over it like.
Interviewer: Oh, my God! So it seems like you learned a lot from this.
Let’s talk about the impact of the artwork on yourself and others.
What did you learn from the process of creating this artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Interviewer: So, like what did you learn overall from the process, and what and like did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Yeah,what did I learn from the process? I learned that I, well, because this was such, it was developed at such like a professional level as compared to like my high school theater, obviously that's usually underfunded, and I really got to see, I got a new sense, a newfound sense of appreciation for everybody else who weren't actors like when it comes to
theater at least. When it comes to theater, or just really anything, you know any type of like art that we see, there's so many people behind it creatively and structurally, even in like screen actors, you know, movies, TV shows that you want. You don't like, realize. You just see the actors as representing as like the whole project, but there's so many people involved. And so I really kind of learned to value that, like sense of community. I really had so much respect for everybody else who wasn't an actor in the production, so much respect for their time and their vision and their talents as well. And I learned how to appreciate, you know, a sense of community. We all got along together really well, which is really awesome, you know, for like a cast, it was such a tight-knit cast. Obviously, you're going to spend that amount of time with each other. You're going to form friendships and everything like that. And luckily for me, I already had a friend who got cast in the show with me. And so, you know, we always just like stuck around each other. We really bonded through it. I also learned the importance of a really good director, a good leader. Essentially she was, I thought, coming to college that for a play they were just going to tell me. Okay, you're going to act like this. You're going to perform this like this, and you're going to do these lines like this. You're going to do everything you want yada yada yada, but she was so collaborative. She would always open up the floor for us and our thoughts and our interpretations and our own ideas, and she would try to figure out how to work that into the play while keeping it still authentic to itself. So I really learned the art of collaboration, and how important that is to have a good leader, like I literally had like a personal meeting with her, just to discuss the through line and the arc of my character, and like my own interpretations. And the character is really interesting. My character had like spiritual powers and so he would, so you know, on top of like this. He's like ERR, like the whole time super hyper like probably has ADHD, stealing stuff. He also has, like these spells and these visions where he sees the future and the whole thing like with him, like even though he's such a young character, the play was the first, of like a trilogy, and he's the main character of the second story, and so like it was like really foundational for him as well. And so he like breaks out into song and has these visions, and I got to develop just the look of that and just the song itself. I had a really really great director and then basically I learned, yeah, community collaboration and good direction. What was the other question?
Interviewer: Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Hmm. Yeah. I did. I, you know, even though, like I was a freshman, I'm a sophomore now. So this was last year. But you know, it's always like the whole thing like watching yourself. Or like if you're an artist like hearing yourself like you're saying, you're hearing yourself, or whatever, it's always a little bit cringey. It's always a little bit embarrassing. And so, you know, thinking of me like newly, you know, like 18. I was like actually one of the younger members of the production as well in line with my character. And I learned I was really proud of what I was able to accomplish, even with like my limited knowledge, I would say, and how independent it is. I really learned to value myself and my time as an artist, realizing like, yeah, you have rehearsals and everything like that. But there's so much you have to do outside of that for yourself. You can't just show up to rehearsal, and just expect people to tell you like, oh, this is how you're going to do it and you know something happens from that. part of what made the experience so enjoyable was how I personalize the character and doing that work by myself. And, it helped me trust myself as an artist. But also, as I said, it validated me as kind of like a queer person of color artist. And, yeah, I was, yeah, I just basically learned how to respect myself and give myself, you know the credit that I deserve. Even though I was like a little baby. I was like a little baby in college. I still, it was, I'm still proud of what I was able to accomplish with it. Yeah.
Interviewer: That's always intimidating, though, like I'm, I'm also sophomore, and my sister also goes here, and she's a senior, and I just like, whenever I like, go and talk to her friends. I'm like, I’m so young.
Participant: I know, you know, like even now as a sophomore, I still kind of feel like a freshman in a lot of ways, you know.
Interviewer: It's just a weird thing like the freshmen, like the actual freshmen, just running around because it's like I'm .No, i'm not old enough for this.
Participant: It was it was really weird my freshman year, because I didn't feel like
I was a freshman in college. I kind of felt like a high school student who was on like this really really long tour of like college campus. Like I was like, how did these people all look so old? It's like I still look like I'm 15, which is why I got cast as a 12 year old, and I'm like, you know. So it was just like, I feel kind of so separated from like everything else. So it was just really interesting to like kind of showcase and like market myself in that way on a stage. Yeah.
How did others receive the artwork? For example, what were their reactions? Did you intend the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Interviewer: Okay, so you told me about how like half of the audience was supporting you? So how did they receive it like? How did like? What did they think about the play like, how did they react?
Participant: Yeah. My friends really loved it, my friends were super supportive. They really loved it, and part of it, what made it so enjoyable is the fact that it's very different from myself. So like I said, like this guy is like, giving like grown white men like the bird, and he's like cussing people out, and he's making like sex jokes like all the time. And he’s like a delinquent, like really a delinquent, and they're just like we've never seen you like act like that before. That was crazy like, so I think it definitely helped in terms of like separating myself from the character, just how different we were. So they received it really well, because they had never seen that side of me before, and then my family, they also received it pretty well, too. They were really impressed. They did say it, it felt like it was really really long, and it was really long I would say. It was like just over like 2 hours, the play. And it doesn't seem like that long, but I guess when you're like, I guess if you're sitting like as an audience, it does feel long. And funny enough, my director, she didn't want an intermission, which is basically like a break in between Act one and Act two. She didn't want an intermission. She was like we have to keep the spirit of the play alive like this world is living and breathing like there's no times for like stops and starts. It's really interesting, because it's like, in the script itself, characters usually make entrances and exits at the beginning of scenes right or at the end of scenes. What was interesting about these characters, they, not only was a place super abstract in that there thing called stage directions, so like our blocking what I told you, like our coordinated movement, our characters would do them as well as say them out loud. So it's almost like the characters for narrating what they are doing. Like it would be like one of my lines is like, ‘Elegba is running and ducking and laughing,’ like he would literally be narrating what he was doing, and he would also do it as well. So there is that part, but also these characters, they, especially my character, he would like interrupt scenes a lot. So he would enter at the end of before the end of a scene, and like interrupt with whatever is going on, so she's like we have to keep that sense of momentum going, so we cannot have any intermission. And then we had a first dress rehearsal which is putting the costumes to the work. And I was like, hey, Anita, we need an intermission. We need a 10 min break. That crew needs it. And I think the audience will probably need it. The audience needs time to digest the story, because if you just throw this thing at them they're just gonna glaze over, and I would blank out if I had to sit there in a dark theater for like 2 hours. So I'm like the audience needs time to like, you know, have a potty break, digest what's happening, and then come back in.And she listened to me and she was like, okay, let's do it. And I was like, oh, for real? And she was like, yeah, let's do it. Let's just let's do an intermission and we'll keep that. I was like, okay! And so yeah, I felt, like I said, really collaborative. She really, truly like listened to each of us. And she respected my needs like I asked her once, and she was like, okay, let's do it. She was really adamant against it. But when I just personally went up and asked her she was like, okay, we can do it. We'll have a 10 min break. I'm like, thank God! My family members, they're like, oh, it was so long, it was so long, it was good, but it was just really long. And I was kind of nervous for my mom to see it because the character is such a departure from myself, and I don't ever like, you know, traditional like Asian households on my mom's side. I don't ever curse. I don't ever do any of the things that she would have seen me do. And in a way I was excited, I was like, yeah, this is like really like a performance. This is like you're not going to see me. But she was like, yeah, it was good ,it’s just so much cursing, and I'm like, yeah, it's like, and she's like, yeah, I don't know if it was my favorite. She just kept thinking about like how like crazy it was. Essentially she was like really good like, looked really good. But she was like, I don't know if I, I don't know, like maybe don't do something like that again. So it was pretty interesting, like the wide range of interpretations also from the audience, because you all interpret the story in different ways, but yeah.
Interviewer: That sounds fun. I, I can't just imagine that, like I also don't curse with my parents or anything. I cannot imagine just like having a full on 2 hours just cursing the whole time. Oh, God, I would just leave.
When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves. They see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process? And did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: Could you repeat, could you repeat that?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature through the process? And then, did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: Okay. So. Hmm. I think, trying to think if I should answer this in terms of character, in terms of like the play itself. I guess I'll do it in terms of character. So this character, I talked about it with my director, he, he over compensates for the fact that he is struggling with his sexuality. He is struggling with the fact that he likes men with his like overtly sexual jokes, and it's like why he acts out so much. Because you know that all comes from an internal place of like some type of struggle. And so, it was really, so it's just like this thing that's like alluded to throughout the whole play, and then it's like, confirmed towards the end when he has like this interaction with a another co-star, another character. And I guess, I kind of learned being like the only, I mean being in Los Angeles, where there's just like such a diverse population in terms of experience and ethnic origin and orientation. I did feel a sense of like, of like responsibility to represent this character well. Knowing, you know, like even in a play like this, even like with like toxic masculinity, and more so like black masculinity, how to explore this character still in like a sensitive light and how to kind of like break, you know the stereotype like a queer person or gay person doesn't have to act in any specific way. So I do feel that responsibility as a queer artist myself. I learned the authenticity comes behind, that comes behind, making a performance and kind of emoting and where that comes from, and trying to relate to an experience that's different from your own, using my empathy. So it's something that I try to develop authentically and there's that. And there’s that and there was something else, what? I can't seem to remember what the other thing was. Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, it's fine. It’s sort of like a challenge to, like know how to like balance between being yourself, but also like the character. Like without, like it's, it’s weird. It's like, it seems like a challenge actually.
Participant: Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, I have to read another one. These are sort of like long for some reason.
Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning
that transcends subjective, personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and
identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering, as well as
spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the
process?
Interviewer: Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep underlying meaning that transcends subjective, personal meaning. It's about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you. Do you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process?
Participant: That's so interesting because the play literally deals with exactly that, suffering and spirituality. Did I learn anything meaningful about myself during the process? Could you repeat the question one more time?
Interviewer: Yeah. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as a deep underlying meeting that transcends subjective personal meaning. It's about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process?
Participant: Okay. Ultimate meaning. I, I grew up Catholic. I was raised Catholic. I am no longer Catholic. You know, I would classify myself as probably agnostic. You know, something's up there, I don't know what it is. And so how to attribute, like my own sense of meaning towards my life, for me it's, I am able to, I guess, take a lot of trauma from my childhood and from my own experiences growing up and a feeling of like imposter syndrome and racism dealing with that in the deep South, being a mixed person, not being able to fit in a box. Taking, like all of that confusion and being able to now see how those facets of my personality, my orientation, my race, how I look, how I act, how that affects your everyday and I guess learning to, and now I've learned to embrace myself in those aspects different parts of myself that I was ashamed of before. In an environment like USC and Los Angeles, where you exist in such a vacuum of different people, it felt like a really good and safe space to explore myself. And you know also being in this play with a nearly all-black cast, it kind of validated that aspect of my identity as well. In terms of spirituality, although I don't necessarily have a connection to that, I respect organized religion and its beauty. I love like religious spaces. I think they're so beautiful. And you know, dealing with this religion, Yoruba, inside the play, it gave me another sense of like appreciation for just other cultures, and it was just a lot of learning. I mean, we had to learn about this. I had no connection to it prior. We had one cast member who was, his family was Yoruba, so he would give us some insight information to, but, like this is completely separated from myself. So learning about that, broadening my own view was really awesome. And yeah, I don't know, it comes with like as an artist or as an actor and a storyteller. In a lot of ways, you have to really be careful about the roles you play and the stories you choose to tell and if you are the right person to tell that story. And so it's respecting, treating it as an art form, but also respecting its real world and real life impacts on other people. So yeah, there was a great deal of respect we put into the performance in that space that I try to carry with me.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, I try too. That makes a lot of sense. I'm from Columbia so like in South America, so like everyone looks like me back home, and everyone's like, I'm like 5 feet like i'm tiny, I'm tiny. English is not my first language like yeah, and then I, I can't, I like and now everyone's like, like I didn't. I really didn't like realize like people just like, look at you, weird for just like how you look, and it's like, I'm sorry, it’s not my fault. It's not like I can do anything about it. It's just like having to like interact with all of these people from like different countries and like different races and different cultures, different everything. that's just like, it's not hard on me, but also like, just getting to know about that, and like learning about them, and everything. Like even my like, I don't know, I have like Venezuelan friends, Mexican friends, like they're from Latin America, but like it's completely different to like my reality, and just learning what like, just knowing how to like, balance everything out and like the shock that you'll have like coming into college, and everything is like, oh, my God.
Participant: Yeah.
Interviewer: It's a lot. So yeah, I, I get that. Yeah. Okay, I have another long one.
Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This
may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but
also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Interviewer: So some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs and experiences that also may include mystical or transcendent experiences or interaction with spirits. Did you have any of these? Oh, my God! Any of these kinds of experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Participant: I would say, not necessarily, not myself personally, but when I was younger, something that always led me to believe in like fate as like, you know, as, however mundane or silly, that sounds, I always knew, well ever since I was younger, I, you know, dreamed of being a writer, an author. And I was really involved in like different performance arts as well. When I was younger I was in band. I was in band for 7 years. I was in choir for like 4 years. I really delved into all of those aspects, and so I knew that I was like, I don't know. I guess it never stuck to me like I like performing. I didn't realize I was going to do it on such a grand scale. I knew I wanted to go to California for school ever since I was young, because even though I was from Mississippi, I was born in California, and I lived here for about 6 years, and then I moved over there. So I did like first grade through senior of High School there and then I moved back. So there's family there. I had those family ties, and also this opportunity, and you know me trying to escape my little small town and going somewhere grander where I could explore myself unapologetically. So I always knew I wanted to go to college in California. I really did want to go to college like that was a really big thing for me, it was a big thing for me as a first-generation college student. You know my parents didn't go to college, and I knew that was something I wanted, and I don't take it for granted now that I'm here, you know. I feel especially like USC, which is like a really large, known for being like a really rich like private school, you know I don't take it for granted at all. So in a way I kinda always felt fated to like accomplish my dreams if that makes sense like I knew that it was a dream, but I knew that as I really didn't believe, I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry. Give me 1 second. I'm going to text her back. I, I always felt like that saying of you can accomplish anything as long as you put your mind to it. I really did resonate with that, and it caused me to get really good grades in high school. I was like, I'm going to get good grades. I'm going to get into a really good out of State School. I'm going to go to California, accomplish my dreams, do whatever, and I did that. I did that in the midst of a pandemic, you know, obviously. And it was like nothing in the way that I pictured, but almost kind of like exactly what I pictured at the same time. Like I feel like this was the next step in my life where I felt like it was a chapter in developing myself as an adult. And so, it, you know, being able to perform and do what I love in such an open and like loving and diverse, unique space, I did kind of feel a little bit fate for that. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, that makes sense. It's like you really, like all your life you're thinking about doing something. And then you actually do it like you actually do it, and then it's like, oh, okay.
Participant: It's crazy, and I don't think about like a lot of times, you know. I feel like a lot of people take it for granted, Like going to college, doing whatever going classes, whatever. But I try not to take it for granted. Yeah.
Interviewer: I don't know how there's people that like stay back and don't go to class, and they're here, and it's like no. Like, I get like one or 2 like you can skip, it's fine, but just like all the time it's like you're paying for this like. Enjoy it, like you came here like, do it like I actually do it. Yeah, no. I get what you mean like. I I always dreamed for like to coming to the U.S. sort of, and it was like, always like, I'm not staying back home, not staying there like I'm going to the U.S. And then I'm here it's like, like when I go back home for breaks or something. It's just like I don't live here anymore, like. Yeah, it's it's so crazy. Yeah, it's a lot. Okay, I have one last question and then I have something like, I need to say. And then that's it.
What was going on in your life around the time that you created the artwork?
Interviewer: Basically, so what was going on in your life around the time that you created the artwork?
Participant: What was going on in my life? Trying to think. Hmm. Honestly, it's really a blur. It is really a blur. But, you know I talked about, you know, struggling some with my classes because of it to play so there is that. I ended up filing for an incomplete for my English class that semester, because I'm, I’m also an English major as well as like an acting major and I filed an incomplete with that class. And it's because, I guess this is kind of after the artwork was created, but I still kind of associate it with the same like time period. I struggled. I was going through this interpersonal struggle with my friends from home, from Mississippi and I had said something, well, they had said something that offended me, and I kind of blew up at them about it. And I didn't interpret it as like blowing up at them about it, but I realized now that, like whoa, you should have handled that with more caution. And so that caused, like a really big divide, and we don't talk to each other now. So there is that whole ordeal that was happening towards the end of the semester when my exams were and so like, when something like that happens to me, I'm a cancer, and so I get really, emotionally like, I'm like really emotional and so like it really prevented me from like kind of like, not functioning, but it was preoccupying my mind like that was all I could think about. And so I had to file for an incomplete for my English class, which is basically you couldn’t complete the final exam, so now you have a year to do it for basically full credit, cuz of extenuating circumstances or emergency circumstances. And I said it was due to my mental health and I ended that class with an A and A minus. But yeah, it was a pretty like mentally challenging semester in terms of time management. It was really hard to manage my time. And then, you know, on top of that it was like the only thing I could talk about like being in play. It was like the only thing I would talk about for like a month, but it's because it took up so much time, you know. So it really preoccupied me a lot. So it took a lot of me in terms of like my friendships and my classes and my time essentially. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, it must have been like really overwhelming and draining and all like, like, it's not just the play, but also like classes, and also like the thing with your friends that it's like. you can't really focus on like academics anymore, because it's just like, it takes so much space from your brain, and just like your time in general. It's just like, it gets to a point where you can’t just focus on that anymore.
Participant: Exactly.
Interviewer: I, I can relate. I stopped sleeping so like, even if I wanted to go to class,I just couldn't wake up for it, because I just couldn't sleep. And then just feeling tired all the time and just like, I can't do homework. I can't like focus in anything that's not like feeling bad. It's. And then, just like the pressure of like having to actually finish the class, because, like the world's not stopping because you feel bad. It doesn't stop, even if you want to, it’s just not going to. So no, I totally get that like it's when you have like. You need like a balance for everything, but sometimes you just can't do it. Yeah, very understandable. But you got a good grade anyways.
Participant: Yeah, I did.
Interviewer: Okay. Now, the last one, it's, so I finished the interview.
The participant chose to discuss their portrayal of the character, Elegba, in the play, “In the Red and Brown Water.” This production was meaningful to them due to the nearly all-black cast, which made them feel validated as an artist of color, in addition to the play being a positive experience overall. As a theater major, they auditioned for the production because they were intrigued by the synopsis, liked the contrast between themselves and the character, and felt a connection with the director. The production was put on with the participant and several other students who were both cast and crew. They later noted how much they valued working in this collaborative environment and grew to have an appreciation for everyone involved. They felt excited throughout the entire process; however, their commitment to the play did cause them to have issues with keeping up with coursework and maintaining relationships.
This process helped the participant learn about themselves as an artist, learning to trust themselves, being proud of their work, and feeling validated as a queer/person of color artist. They also mentioned the importance of having good guidance from the director and working in an understanding, collaborative space. Friends and family generally enjoyed the performance, making note of how different the character was from the participant. Regarding authenticity, they mentioned how authenticity in character portrayal comes from behind the scenes. They specifically mentioned the importance of representing a character appropriately and without stereotypes, especially when they come from the same marginalized background(s) as the character. When asked about ultimate meaning, they mentioned how the play deals with suffering and spirituality. Additionally, they stated that this experience allowed them to broaden their view on religion, as Yoruba was highlighted in the piece, although they are agnostic. They did not mention any supernatural encounters related to the creation of their character, but alluded to being guided by fate more generally in life.
Interview Transcript
Introduction
Interviewer: Okay, great. So do you see that's recording?
Participant: Yes, I do.
Description
Interviewer: Amazing, so as you know, I'm gonna ask you a bunch of questions about an artwork you created, and the first one is to ask you to tell me what it is.
Participant: Yeah, of course. My freshman year of college, I'm a theater major at USC with an acting emphasis, and so part of our curriculum requirement, as an option, we have different stage plays that we put on throughout the year. And my freshman year, I portrayed a character in this play, called In the Red and Brown Water, written by Tarell Alvin McCraney. He was the, one of the co-writers of Moonlight, that was his story of that film. And this is a series of plays that he wrote when he was in college. And yeah, I wanted to talk about that experience.
Why did you choose this one? (Specialness)
Interviewer: Amazing, so, what, like can you describe it a little bit more like what are the important details and like, why do you choose to talk about this one for this study?
Participant: Yeah, I chose to talk about this because it, it's pretty meaningful to me in terms of like my career. The play was mostly an all-black cast and so it kind of validated me as like an artist of color. And it was really this, it was this really unique feeling of, I knew that the way that we were going to portray this play, and especially for me in this character, was so unique, and in that I will perform this and be done with it, and literally, no one will be able to perform like a character in that certain way, as in like, this character is kind of my own now. It's whatever I make it. And it was just a really awesome experience. It was the first time I did a play in college. I had done high school theater, and so it was kind of like making a transition, I'm from a very small town in Mississippi. And so, you know, coming to Los Angeles and kind of making that successful transition. It was like a lead role in my freshman year and I was really fortunate to have it, and a lot of work was put into it. We rehearsed for about like 4 to 5 hours every day for 5 weeks during school and on top of classes and we had a dialect coach and we had, what did we have? We had a cultural consultant. It dealed with the play’s story, it dealed with Yoruba mythology and cosmology, and that's basically religion of a sector of like Southwest Nigeria. And so a lot of care was put into it by the entire cast, and everybody behind it. And being able to translate that onto a stage and perform it for like 5 nights was a really awesome experience.
Interviewer: That is like a lot of work. Oh, my God! 4 to 5 hours! That's crazy.
Participant: It was really crazy. It was like 6 pm to 10 pm, so like to go to classes and then like.
Interviewer: No that’s crazy. Okay
Process of Creating
What led up to its creation? What motivated you to create it?
Interviewer: So what led up to this creation and like what motivated you to like create it basically?
Participant: Yeah. What led up to it, I would say, was the, in terms of me auditioning, I had to audition for the part obviously, and they release a season of plays at the beginning of every school year, so you can see the lineup of different plays and see if there are any that you're interested in, and you want to audition for and I saw this one. The title was really intriguing In the Red and Brown Water. I read the little synopsis. I was like, okay, that sounds pretty cool. And my first week of USC I attended a, I attended a diversity, equity, and inclusion workshop and the person who oversaw that was going to be the director of this play and she is like co-head of undergraduate acting. She was like the head of our DEI program and I kind of just saw like her welcoming attitude. Her personality really came through, her like maternal instincts, and I was like, and she's like a woman of color, and Anita Dashiell Sparks is her name. She's a black actress and director, on and off Broadway actress, and professor now. And I knew I was like, okay, I, I want to learn from her and so I auditioned for this play, I specifically, I didn't want any like
small role, so I specifically, like in my audition, I stated the role that I wanted, and basically her play was kind of the only one I auditioned for, and I auditioned for, like a Shakespeare play. I was really invested in it and I auditioned for it. This was online actually, because coming into the spring semester of 2022 classes were still online. And so I auditioned online, 2 hour time difference in my little like bedroom in Mississippi, and it was like I was on the zoom from like 8 to 12 at night time, and I had these auditions, and I had callbacks and it was just really cool. What inspired me was, the character was very like separated from myself, but in a lot of times, in acting you want to find different parts of yourself and kind of showcase that through the character and this character was the youngest character in the play, he's 12 years old, and you go through this whole arc where the play progresses by 4 years. There's like a 4-year time stamp. And in pursuit of this character, I did not know at the time, but I got to essentially develop his speaking voice. He's kind of rag-tag or rough around the edges. He gets into a lot of mischief. His character symbolizes like the god of mischief in Yoruba mythology. His name is Elegba, and so he steals all the time he has this huge potty mouth. And so it was just a different side of myself that I got to explore on stage in front of people. I got to develop his speaking voice as like he grew older from like 12 to like 16, and so he was the youngest character in the play and he was a character that was explicitly like stated, or at least hinted at, his sexual orientation. He was bisexual, and so I just thought he was a really good stride in terms of representation and the type of characters I would like to portray in my career.
Interviewer: Wow, you auditioned online. I can't like picture that like it's, it's crazy. It's like I can barely have classes like what.
Participant: It was crazy. The audition process was online, but everything else, all the rehearsals, that was in person. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah. That's that's so, wow.
When and where did the work happen? Who was involved besides you (if anyone)?
Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. okay. So when and where did the work happen? And then who was involved beside you? So it was your freshman year, you were in college. So then the question is, who was involved beside you, if anyone was?
Participant: Yeah, we had a pretty small cast, obviously our cast and crew. So in theater this is your, your playwright was not involved, but we have obviously the rights to perform this play from him. Playwrights. We have our director, Anita Dashiell Sparks. We have stage managers in theater, which are essentially the film equivalent of like producers and executive producers who are also students. They manage everything. They're on a headset. They oversee like where all the props go, everything like that. They have like a bird's eye view of everything, and they're just like there for safety and accommodations and everything like that. I believe we had an intimacy coordinator and that was for certain characters who had like intimate scenes. We'd refer to them, and we'd have a closed set, obviously so, it would just be those 2 actors performing.
We had a cultural consultant to learn about Yoruba mythology and symbolism and culture. We had a dialect coach, Kathleen Dunn-Muzingo, she's also a professor here at USC. We had all of our cast, which is about like 12 to 13 people. Half of us were freshmen, and the other half were seniors, coincidentally, so, it was really interesting. It was really interesting. It was really good learning experience, especially like on my part, and seeing how everyone operates in that space, very professional. The school made sure it was like very professional up with industry standards, our rehearsal process, and then on top of that they came in about like 2 weeks before the show performed, or the last week. We had our crew and that's like people who do props. That's , these are all students by the way, people who do props, people who did sound, lighting, people who are in charge of costumes, and then on top of that kind of their bosses were the designers, the lighting designers, the costume designers, the sound designers. These people who like created this, like basically painted the world of this play like from its conception and yeah, so a lot of a lot more moving parts than you would think for a play.
Interviewer: That's a lot of like coordination, and like everyone has to be organized because if not, this is gonna go bad.
ParticipantL: Yeah.
What were you thinking and feeling at different times throughout the process of creating the artwork?
Interviewer: Okay. What were you thinking and feeling, at the different times throughout the process? So like beginning, middle, and end sort of.
Participant: Yeah. Well, our first week was not really acting. Our first week was our process called like table reads, and all the actors gathered around the table with the director and we're all reading through the script together and basically, you know, stating our own opinions, our own interpretations of our scenes, and what the material is in front of us. And so our first week of rehearsal was literally just that. It was just us sitting in a room for a week in like the PE building of our school because we have like some acting classes there as well, and like. We have literally like USC like Division I athletes there as well. We're all sharing a space, all of us a week in a classroom in the PE building, like reading through the script, dissecting, and analyzing the script for like 4 hours a day. And it was a really really enlightening experience, so at the beginning was really awesome. I always wanted to be, I always had an interest in writing when I was younger. I didn't know I wanted to do acting until like high school and I always wanted to be an author. So all actors are storytellers essentially, and so, being able to really dissect a story like that was really conducive to like my own creative process. So a lot of excitement, a lot of excitement towards the beginning. And then, I guess, towards the middle, that's when things are getting real. You're learning your blocking, which is essentially that's putting movement to the text so like that's like actors moving around in the space, like all of that is coordinated. So we are putting blocking to our lines and, you know, I'm just like my character was in it for a fair amount of time. So I'm just trying to remember all of these things, and I, in my script, I draw a lot, and so like I draw like diagrams. I would draw like eyeballs for different lines, I knew I’d want to make eye contact with just different, weird things. Like if I showed you. I have my script right here actually, like if I showed like someone like, they would have no idea like what any of this means, like just a random stuff that I put on it. It's just like very like random, and it wouldn't make sense to a lot of people. It's just really like random stuff. It's like kind of incomprehensible, whatever is on here. But, so there was that, it was, it was still exciting. I was excited through the whole process, really. And then it was spring break. So that's like a one week break in between all of our rehearsals and basically that was when we had to learn all of our lines. And so, you know, just good thing for me. I have a pretty good memory, so it's not that hard for me to memorize lines but it's just like re-reading, rereading, rereading the same thing going back
building on top of that. I want to do that and then towards the end was really awesome, because I encouraged all my friends to go. All of my roommates came out and supported me. All of my friends came out and supported me and my family as well, and I invited them all. Like I come from, I’m half Vietnamese, so we have, like a very big Asian side of my family. And so my mom flew in from Mississippi, my cousin, her fiancée, and my 3 other cousins came out to support me. And my friends and roommates came out for me, and coincidentally, it was the same night, so they both all so like, I had, like a whole like audience like ,and the theater was pretty small too, so like 20 seats practically were just like my own supporters. And I was like, wow, this is awesome! So there's that. And then I, that was kind of nerve-racking because I was like, okay. Now, this is kind of like, kind of prove myself. Show other people what I have and show my mom that you know this like education, and these tuition prices are not going to waste. And then,yeah, I had also invited some of my professors to come and see it. And yeah, it was, it was so, I guess professionally it was such a milestone for me. Mentally it was pretty exhausting. It was really really tough actually. We have this whole thing in our school, where, you know your participation in plays is not supposed to affect your performances in any classes, essentially. And you know, I mean, I just told you about like it was 4 hours a day, 6 to 10 PM every day, and I'm just like how could they not affect someone's performance in classes? And so it definitely affected mine. Essentially, I'm a freshman, you know I don't really cook for myself. I didn't really cook for myself yet, and so our dining halls would be closed after my rehearsal, so I'd have to buy like frozen meals, and like groceries like a week in advance and eat that. And then I wouldn't have any time for homework, either, because my classes would end, and I would go straight to this 4 hour rehearsal. And so I was, I’m really a night owl, but it was really like, it was really like put to the forefront with this. Like I was doing like homework and eating dinner at like midnight to like 3 am. And then I still had to go to my classes the next day after. So I did drop off in attendance from some of my classes. So I did struggle with that a bit, but I was still able to keep up with like pretty good grades for my freshman year, but mentally very taxing. Artistically and emotionally, very rewarding, and I don't regret the experience at all. It was an incredible experience.
Interviewer: It does sound like a lot, though, like I can just imagine just like going, like being tired from class, just going to the rehearsal, and then just not being able to sleep because you still have homework like.
Participant: It was crazy. I told my friends basically you won't see me for the next month because I'm, all my time is going to be in this. I literally, because we would usually get dinners together like that's how we would bond, and like I'm not going to be available for dinner, literally for like the next month. So like bye guys like you'll see me when the show is over it like.
Interviewer: Oh, my God! So it seems like you learned a lot from this.
Let’s talk about the impact of the artwork on yourself and others.
What did you learn from the process of creating this artwork? Did you learn anything about yourself?
Interviewer: So, like what did you learn overall from the process, and what and like did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Yeah,what did I learn from the process? I learned that I, well, because this was such, it was developed at such like a professional level as compared to like my high school theater, obviously that's usually underfunded, and I really got to see, I got a new sense, a newfound sense of appreciation for everybody else who weren't actors like when it comes to
theater at least. When it comes to theater, or just really anything, you know any type of like art that we see, there's so many people behind it creatively and structurally, even in like screen actors, you know, movies, TV shows that you want. You don't like, realize. You just see the actors as representing as like the whole project, but there's so many people involved. And so I really kind of learned to value that, like sense of community. I really had so much respect for everybody else who wasn't an actor in the production, so much respect for their time and their vision and their talents as well. And I learned how to appreciate, you know, a sense of community. We all got along together really well, which is really awesome, you know, for like a cast, it was such a tight-knit cast. Obviously, you're going to spend that amount of time with each other. You're going to form friendships and everything like that. And luckily for me, I already had a friend who got cast in the show with me. And so, you know, we always just like stuck around each other. We really bonded through it. I also learned the importance of a really good director, a good leader. Essentially she was, I thought, coming to college that for a play they were just going to tell me. Okay, you're going to act like this. You're going to perform this like this, and you're going to do these lines like this. You're going to do everything you want yada yada yada, but she was so collaborative. She would always open up the floor for us and our thoughts and our interpretations and our own ideas, and she would try to figure out how to work that into the play while keeping it still authentic to itself. So I really learned the art of collaboration, and how important that is to have a good leader, like I literally had like a personal meeting with her, just to discuss the through line and the arc of my character, and like my own interpretations. And the character is really interesting. My character had like spiritual powers and so he would, so you know, on top of like this. He's like ERR, like the whole time super hyper like probably has ADHD, stealing stuff. He also has, like these spells and these visions where he sees the future and the whole thing like with him, like even though he's such a young character, the play was the first, of like a trilogy, and he's the main character of the second story, and so like it was like really foundational for him as well. And so he like breaks out into song and has these visions, and I got to develop just the look of that and just the song itself. I had a really really great director and then basically I learned, yeah, community collaboration and good direction. What was the other question?
Interviewer: Did you learn anything about yourself?
Participant: Hmm. Yeah. I did. I, you know, even though, like I was a freshman, I'm a sophomore now. So this was last year. But you know, it's always like the whole thing like watching yourself. Or like if you're an artist like hearing yourself like you're saying, you're hearing yourself, or whatever, it's always a little bit cringey. It's always a little bit embarrassing. And so, you know, thinking of me like newly, you know, like 18. I was like actually one of the younger members of the production as well in line with my character. And I learned I was really proud of what I was able to accomplish, even with like my limited knowledge, I would say, and how independent it is. I really learned to value myself and my time as an artist, realizing like, yeah, you have rehearsals and everything like that. But there's so much you have to do outside of that for yourself. You can't just show up to rehearsal, and just expect people to tell you like, oh, this is how you're going to do it and you know something happens from that. part of what made the experience so enjoyable was how I personalize the character and doing that work by myself. And, it helped me trust myself as an artist. But also, as I said, it validated me as kind of like a queer person of color artist. And, yeah, I was, yeah, I just basically learned how to respect myself and give myself, you know the credit that I deserve. Even though I was like a little baby. I was like a little baby in college. I still, it was, I'm still proud of what I was able to accomplish with it. Yeah.
Interviewer: That's always intimidating, though, like I'm, I'm also sophomore, and my sister also goes here, and she's a senior, and I just like, whenever I like, go and talk to her friends. I'm like, I’m so young.
Participant: I know, you know, like even now as a sophomore, I still kind of feel like a freshman in a lot of ways, you know.
Interviewer: It's just a weird thing like the freshmen, like the actual freshmen, just running around because it's like I'm .No, i'm not old enough for this.
Participant: It was it was really weird my freshman year, because I didn't feel like
I was a freshman in college. I kind of felt like a high school student who was on like this really really long tour of like college campus. Like I was like, how did these people all look so old? It's like I still look like I'm 15, which is why I got cast as a 12 year old, and I'm like, you know. So it was just like, I feel kind of so separated from like everything else. So it was just really interesting to like kind of showcase and like market myself in that way on a stage. Yeah.
How did others receive the artwork? For example, what were their reactions? Did you intend the work to affect others or the world in any particular ways?
Interviewer: Okay, so you told me about how like half of the audience was supporting you? So how did they receive it like? How did like? What did they think about the play like, how did they react?
Participant: Yeah. My friends really loved it, my friends were super supportive. They really loved it, and part of it, what made it so enjoyable is the fact that it's very different from myself. So like I said, like this guy is like, giving like grown white men like the bird, and he's like cussing people out, and he's making like sex jokes like all the time. And he’s like a delinquent, like really a delinquent, and they're just like we've never seen you like act like that before. That was crazy like, so I think it definitely helped in terms of like separating myself from the character, just how different we were. So they received it really well, because they had never seen that side of me before, and then my family, they also received it pretty well, too. They were really impressed. They did say it, it felt like it was really really long, and it was really long I would say. It was like just over like 2 hours, the play. And it doesn't seem like that long, but I guess when you're like, I guess if you're sitting like as an audience, it does feel long. And funny enough, my director, she didn't want an intermission, which is basically like a break in between Act one and Act two. She didn't want an intermission. She was like we have to keep the spirit of the play alive like this world is living and breathing like there's no times for like stops and starts. It's really interesting, because it's like, in the script itself, characters usually make entrances and exits at the beginning of scenes right or at the end of scenes. What was interesting about these characters, they, not only was a place super abstract in that there thing called stage directions, so like our blocking what I told you, like our coordinated movement, our characters would do them as well as say them out loud. So it's almost like the characters for narrating what they are doing. Like it would be like one of my lines is like, ‘Elegba is running and ducking and laughing,’ like he would literally be narrating what he was doing, and he would also do it as well. So there is that part, but also these characters, they, especially my character, he would like interrupt scenes a lot. So he would enter at the end of before the end of a scene, and like interrupt with whatever is going on, so she's like we have to keep that sense of momentum going, so we cannot have any intermission. And then we had a first dress rehearsal which is putting the costumes to the work. And I was like, hey, Anita, we need an intermission. We need a 10 min break. That crew needs it. And I think the audience will probably need it. The audience needs time to digest the story, because if you just throw this thing at them they're just gonna glaze over, and I would blank out if I had to sit there in a dark theater for like 2 hours. So I'm like the audience needs time to like, you know, have a potty break, digest what's happening, and then come back in.And she listened to me and she was like, okay, let's do it. And I was like, oh, for real? And she was like, yeah, let's do it. Let's just let's do an intermission and we'll keep that. I was like, okay! And so yeah, I felt, like I said, really collaborative. She really, truly like listened to each of us. And she respected my needs like I asked her once, and she was like, okay, let's do it. She was really adamant against it. But when I just personally went up and asked her she was like, okay, we can do it. We'll have a 10 min break. I'm like, thank God! My family members, they're like, oh, it was so long, it was so long, it was good, but it was just really long. And I was kind of nervous for my mom to see it because the character is such a departure from myself, and I don't ever like, you know, traditional like Asian households on my mom's side. I don't ever curse. I don't ever do any of the things that she would have seen me do. And in a way I was excited, I was like, yeah, this is like really like a performance. This is like you're not going to see me. But she was like, yeah, it was good ,it’s just so much cursing, and I'm like, yeah, it's like, and she's like, yeah, I don't know if it was my favorite. She just kept thinking about like how like crazy it was. Essentially she was like really good like, looked really good. But she was like, I don't know if I, I don't know, like maybe don't do something like that again. So it was pretty interesting, like the wide range of interpretations also from the audience, because you all interpret the story in different ways, but yeah.
Interviewer: That sounds fun. I, I can't just imagine that, like I also don't curse with my parents or anything. I cannot imagine just like having a full on 2 hours just cursing the whole time. Oh, God, I would just leave.
When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process? Did you have any insights about your own authentic (or inauthentic) self?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves. They see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real or authentic. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature during the process? And did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: Could you repeat, could you repeat that?
Interviewer: When some people think about themselves, they see some parts of themselves as deeply true, real, or authentic.If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about your true nature through the process? And then, did you have any insights about your own authentic or inauthentic self?
Participant: Okay. So. Hmm. I think, trying to think if I should answer this in terms of character, in terms of like the play itself. I guess I'll do it in terms of character. So this character, I talked about it with my director, he, he over compensates for the fact that he is struggling with his sexuality. He is struggling with the fact that he likes men with his like overtly sexual jokes, and it's like why he acts out so much. Because you know that all comes from an internal place of like some type of struggle. And so, it was really, so it's just like this thing that's like alluded to throughout the whole play, and then it's like, confirmed towards the end when he has like this interaction with a another co-star, another character. And I guess, I kind of learned being like the only, I mean being in Los Angeles, where there's just like such a diverse population in terms of experience and ethnic origin and orientation. I did feel a sense of like, of like responsibility to represent this character well. Knowing, you know, like even in a play like this, even like with like toxic masculinity, and more so like black masculinity, how to explore this character still in like a sensitive light and how to kind of like break, you know the stereotype like a queer person or gay person doesn't have to act in any specific way. So I do feel that responsibility as a queer artist myself. I learned the authenticity comes behind, that comes behind, making a performance and kind of emoting and where that comes from, and trying to relate to an experience that's different from your own, using my empathy. So it's something that I try to develop authentically and there's that. And there’s that and there was something else, what? I can't seem to remember what the other thing was. Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, it's fine. It’s sort of like a challenge to, like know how to like balance between being yourself, but also like the character. Like without, like it's, it’s weird. It's like, it seems like a challenge actually.
Participant: Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay, I have to read another one. These are sort of like long for some reason.
Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep, underlying meaning
that transcends subjective, personal meaning. It is about the nature of existence and
identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering, as well as
spirituality.
If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the
process?
Interviewer: Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as deep underlying meaning that transcends subjective, personal meaning. It's about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you. Do you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process?
Participant: That's so interesting because the play literally deals with exactly that, suffering and spirituality. Did I learn anything meaningful about myself during the process? Could you repeat the question one more time?
Interviewer: Yeah. Some people believe in ultimate meaning. This is defined as a deep underlying meeting that transcends subjective personal meaning. It's about the nature of existence and identity, and it may include ideas about the significance of suffering as well as spirituality. If this idea resonates with you, did you learn anything about ultimate meaning during the process?
Participant: Okay. Ultimate meaning. I, I grew up Catholic. I was raised Catholic. I am no longer Catholic. You know, I would classify myself as probably agnostic. You know, something's up there, I don't know what it is. And so how to attribute, like my own sense of meaning towards my life, for me it's, I am able to, I guess, take a lot of trauma from my childhood and from my own experiences growing up and a feeling of like imposter syndrome and racism dealing with that in the deep South, being a mixed person, not being able to fit in a box. Taking, like all of that confusion and being able to now see how those facets of my personality, my orientation, my race, how I look, how I act, how that affects your everyday and I guess learning to, and now I've learned to embrace myself in those aspects different parts of myself that I was ashamed of before. In an environment like USC and Los Angeles, where you exist in such a vacuum of different people, it felt like a really good and safe space to explore myself. And you know also being in this play with a nearly all-black cast, it kind of validated that aspect of my identity as well. In terms of spirituality, although I don't necessarily have a connection to that, I respect organized religion and its beauty. I love like religious spaces. I think they're so beautiful. And you know, dealing with this religion, Yoruba, inside the play, it gave me another sense of like appreciation for just other cultures, and it was just a lot of learning. I mean, we had to learn about this. I had no connection to it prior. We had one cast member who was, his family was Yoruba, so he would give us some insight information to, but, like this is completely separated from myself. So learning about that, broadening my own view was really awesome. And yeah, I don't know, it comes with like as an artist or as an actor and a storyteller. In a lot of ways, you have to really be careful about the roles you play and the stories you choose to tell and if you are the right person to tell that story. And so it's respecting, treating it as an art form, but also respecting its real world and real life impacts on other people. So yeah, there was a great deal of respect we put into the performance in that space that I try to carry with me.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, I try too. That makes a lot of sense. I'm from Columbia so like in South America, so like everyone looks like me back home, and everyone's like, I'm like 5 feet like i'm tiny, I'm tiny. English is not my first language like yeah, and then I, I can't, I like and now everyone's like, like I didn't. I really didn't like realize like people just like, look at you, weird for just like how you look, and it's like, I'm sorry, it’s not my fault. It's not like I can do anything about it. It's just like having to like interact with all of these people from like different countries and like different races and different cultures, different everything. that's just like, it's not hard on me, but also like, just getting to know about that, and like learning about them, and everything. Like even my like, I don't know, I have like Venezuelan friends, Mexican friends, like they're from Latin America, but like it's completely different to like my reality, and just learning what like, just knowing how to like, balance everything out and like the shock that you'll have like coming into college, and everything is like, oh, my God.
Participant: Yeah.
Interviewer: It's a lot. So yeah, I, I get that. Yeah. Okay, I have another long one.
Some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This
may include religious beliefs/experiences (such as perceived interactions with God) but
also may include mystical or transcendent experiences, or interaction with spirits.
Did you have any of these kinds of experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Interviewer: So some people believe or perceive a reality beyond the physical or material world. This may include religious beliefs and experiences that also may include mystical or transcendent experiences or interaction with spirits. Did you have any of these? Oh, my God! Any of these kinds of experiences during the creation of the artwork?
Participant: I would say, not necessarily, not myself personally, but when I was younger, something that always led me to believe in like fate as like, you know, as, however mundane or silly, that sounds, I always knew, well ever since I was younger, I, you know, dreamed of being a writer, an author. And I was really involved in like different performance arts as well. When I was younger I was in band. I was in band for 7 years. I was in choir for like 4 years. I really delved into all of those aspects, and so I knew that I was like, I don't know. I guess it never stuck to me like I like performing. I didn't realize I was going to do it on such a grand scale. I knew I wanted to go to California for school ever since I was young, because even though I was from Mississippi, I was born in California, and I lived here for about 6 years, and then I moved over there. So I did like first grade through senior of High School there and then I moved back. So there's family there. I had those family ties, and also this opportunity, and you know me trying to escape my little small town and going somewhere grander where I could explore myself unapologetically. So I always knew I wanted to go to college in California. I really did want to go to college like that was a really big thing for me, it was a big thing for me as a first-generation college student. You know my parents didn't go to college, and I knew that was something I wanted, and I don't take it for granted now that I'm here, you know. I feel especially like USC, which is like a really large, known for being like a really rich like private school, you know I don't take it for granted at all. So in a way I kinda always felt fated to like accomplish my dreams if that makes sense like I knew that it was a dream, but I knew that as I really didn't believe, I'm sorry. Sorry about that. Sorry. Give me 1 second. I'm going to text her back. I, I always felt like that saying of you can accomplish anything as long as you put your mind to it. I really did resonate with that, and it caused me to get really good grades in high school. I was like, I'm going to get good grades. I'm going to get into a really good out of State School. I'm going to go to California, accomplish my dreams, do whatever, and I did that. I did that in the midst of a pandemic, you know, obviously. And it was like nothing in the way that I pictured, but almost kind of like exactly what I pictured at the same time. Like I feel like this was the next step in my life where I felt like it was a chapter in developing myself as an adult. And so, it, you know, being able to perform and do what I love in such an open and like loving and diverse, unique space, I did kind of feel a little bit fate for that. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, that makes sense. It's like you really, like all your life you're thinking about doing something. And then you actually do it like you actually do it, and then it's like, oh, okay.
Participant: It's crazy, and I don't think about like a lot of times, you know. I feel like a lot of people take it for granted, Like going to college, doing whatever going classes, whatever. But I try not to take it for granted. Yeah.
Interviewer: I don't know how there's people that like stay back and don't go to class, and they're here, and it's like no. Like, I get like one or 2 like you can skip, it's fine, but just like all the time it's like you're paying for this like. Enjoy it, like you came here like, do it like I actually do it. Yeah, no. I get what you mean like. I I always dreamed for like to coming to the U.S. sort of, and it was like, always like, I'm not staying back home, not staying there like I'm going to the U.S. And then I'm here it's like, like when I go back home for breaks or something. It's just like I don't live here anymore, like. Yeah, it's it's so crazy. Yeah, it's a lot. Okay, I have one last question and then I have something like, I need to say. And then that's it.
What was going on in your life around the time that you created the artwork?
Interviewer: Basically, so what was going on in your life around the time that you created the artwork?
Participant: What was going on in my life? Trying to think. Hmm. Honestly, it's really a blur. It is really a blur. But, you know I talked about, you know, struggling some with my classes because of it to play so there is that. I ended up filing for an incomplete for my English class that semester, because I'm, I’m also an English major as well as like an acting major and I filed an incomplete with that class. And it's because, I guess this is kind of after the artwork was created, but I still kind of associate it with the same like time period. I struggled. I was going through this interpersonal struggle with my friends from home, from Mississippi and I had said something, well, they had said something that offended me, and I kind of blew up at them about it. And I didn't interpret it as like blowing up at them about it, but I realized now that, like whoa, you should have handled that with more caution. And so that caused, like a really big divide, and we don't talk to each other now. So there is that whole ordeal that was happening towards the end of the semester when my exams were and so like, when something like that happens to me, I'm a cancer, and so I get really, emotionally like, I'm like really emotional and so like it really prevented me from like kind of like, not functioning, but it was preoccupying my mind like that was all I could think about. And so I had to file for an incomplete for my English class, which is basically you couldn’t complete the final exam, so now you have a year to do it for basically full credit, cuz of extenuating circumstances or emergency circumstances. And I said it was due to my mental health and I ended that class with an A and A minus. But yeah, it was a pretty like mentally challenging semester in terms of time management. It was really hard to manage my time. And then, you know, on top of that it was like the only thing I could talk about like being in play. It was like the only thing I would talk about for like a month, but it's because it took up so much time, you know. So it really preoccupied me a lot. So it took a lot of me in terms of like my friendships and my classes and my time essentially. Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah, it must have been like really overwhelming and draining and all like, like, it's not just the play, but also like classes, and also like the thing with your friends that it's like. you can't really focus on like academics anymore, because it's just like, it takes so much space from your brain, and just like your time in general. It's just like, it gets to a point where you can’t just focus on that anymore.
Participant: Exactly.
Interviewer: I, I can relate. I stopped sleeping so like, even if I wanted to go to class,I just couldn't wake up for it, because I just couldn't sleep. And then just feeling tired all the time and just like, I can't do homework. I can't like focus in anything that's not like feeling bad. It's. And then, just like the pressure of like having to actually finish the class, because, like the world's not stopping because you feel bad. It doesn't stop, even if you want to, it’s just not going to. So no, I totally get that like it's when you have like. You need like a balance for everything, but sometimes you just can't do it. Yeah, very understandable. But you got a good grade anyways.
Participant: Yeah, I did.
Interviewer: Okay. Now, the last one, it's, so I finished the interview.
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